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-   -   W123 300TD 300D No Start, No Glow (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/402837-w123-300td-300d-no-start-no-glow.html)

jt20 12-29-2019 07:05 PM

W123 300TD 300D No Start, No Glow
 
1982 300TD


Later series Transmission - NSS not verified working ,but previously no issues, new bushings and accurate selector setting

good battery - tried 2 different and charged batteries

BOSCH reman starter - WAS very healthy.

Battery light on when key left in but not turned. no starter click, no glow plug relay click even after waiting a minute.

Issue is no glow plug light and no engagement on start attempt with the key. The bulb is good.

No blown fuses



When jumping the connections on the starter terminal (philllips head screws) nothing happens.

Accessories working

I disconnected the alternator, and the battery light goes off.

I am stumped on this one. My best guess is the ignition switch, but I thought that jumping the starter block would bypass that.

What should be the next test? Check voltage at the starter when turning the key?

Thank you all.
Happy New Year!

Father Of Giants 12-29-2019 07:19 PM

Check all your grounds

jt20 12-29-2019 07:23 PM

Good call.

I checked the one by the battery - negative to chassis.

I guess the ground strap at the bottom of the engine? - the only reason I have not is I recently did a trans swap in the past year and cleaned it up then.

I will check again.

Sugar Bear 12-29-2019 07:24 PM

"What should be the next test? Check voltage at the starter when turning the key?" Yes, check it at the battery first no crank, then at the battery while cranking and then at the heavy battery cable at the starter before and while cranking. Look for large variations/voltage drop while cranking.

Supplying battery voltage to the small lead to the starter should make it crank IF the heavy cable is providing a good connection, the battery is charged, and the starter/solenoid are good.

Try using a jumper cable from the negative post on the battery to a good solid metal ground point on the block.

Try hitting the starter lightly with a hammer while attempting to crank, if it cranks this indicates an open armature winding in the starter.

Good luck!!!

jt20 12-29-2019 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sugar Bear (Post 3991078)
"What should be the next test? Check voltage at the starter when turning the key?" Yes, check it at the battery first no crank, then at the battery while cranking and then at the heavy battery cable at the starter before and while cranking. Look for large variations/voltage drop while cranking.

Try using a jumper cable from the negative post on the battery to a good solid metal ground point on the block.


Thank you, Sir!


I think I hear something disengage (click) after trying to start and then removing the battery cable. Could this be the solenoid?


Can a sticking solenoid drain a battery?

Sugar Bear 12-29-2019 07:43 PM

Solenoid could stick, but it is unlikely. It would also give a notable arc when disconnecting if it was stuck. More likely a glow plug relay or some other relay.

IF the solenoid was sticking it would drain the battery in a hurry and the solenoid would get hot.

steeleygreg 12-29-2019 07:44 PM

Not sure, but the no glow issue could be related to the fuse in the glow-plug relay.

Alec300SD 12-29-2019 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jt20 (Post 3991067)
1982 300TD


Later series Transmission - NSS not verified working ,but previously no issues, new bushings and accurate selector setting

good battery - tried 2 different and charged batteries

BOSCH reman starter - WAS very healthy.

Battery light on when key left in but not turned. no starter click, no glow plug relay click even after waiting a minute.

Issue is no glow plug light and no engagement on start attempt with the key. The bulb is good.

No blown fuses



When jumping the connections on the starter terminal (philllips head screws) nothing happens.

Accessories working

I disconnected the alternator, and the battery light goes off.

I am stumped on this one. My best guess is the ignition switch, but I thought that jumping the starter block would bypass that.

What should be the next test? Check voltage at the starter when turning the key?

Thank you all.
Happy New Year!

Sounds like you have one or more poor connections, as you should have been able to engage the starter by jumping the terminal connections.

Disconnect your battery.

There should be a large braided copper cable connecting the engine to the transmission bell housing.
Remove it and clean the cable lugs and the grounding points with electrical contact cleaner.
Expose bare metal at the grounding points.
Reattach the cable.


Detatch the negative cable from the chassis.
Clean the negative cable lug and the chassis grounding point with electrical contact cleaner.
Expose bare metal at the grounding point.
Reattach the cable to the chassis.


Verify the short stubby braided copper cable from the starter to the solenoid does not contact the starter case.
If this cable contacts the starter case...the starter won't work. BTDT.

Clean off your battery posts and terminals with a battery post and terminal cleaner brush to ensuse a good connection.
Reconnect your battery, and you should be able to engage the starter by jumping the terminal block connections (and via the ignition key).

On 'Desert Rose' I added an ancillary ground wire when I upgraded to an AL129X alternator.
That ancillary wire runs fom the negative cable chassis grounding point to the condensor mounting screw on the back of the alternator housing.

Diesel911 12-29-2019 10:02 PM

1 Attachment(s)
I did not read everyone's posts in detail.

See the pic of the Terminal Junction Block if you look close on the block there is a tiny plastic divider between the sides. I can't see how you could have bridged them with a Philips screwdriver without breaking off the plastic divider. The 2 to the right are the Positive side of it and the White Wire on the right goes down to the Starter Solenoid and the Purple Wire goes to the Glow Plug Relay.
Also note how rusty they are. Rust could also keep you from jumping at the terminal/junction block

Diesel911 12-29-2019 10:04 PM

Where you can bypass the neutral safety switch: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/333784-neutral-safety-switch-troubleshooting-84-300d.html

Also a few months ago I had no starter click and I put a piece of wood down behind at the end of the intake manifold and on the starter and hit the wood with a hammer and it would start working as it was supposed to.

barry12345 12-30-2019 12:29 AM

A test light or meter might make it a lot easier to find the issue. When you bridged the solenoid and got nothing. Eliminated the ignition switch as the issue.
A list of tests keeping it simple. #1 test light or meter from starter cable at starter back to negative terminal on battery. Right on the post. Lights, then starter cable at starter to engine block. If it does not light there is a ground issue in the second part of this test. This should get you started on where to concentrate your efforts.

The heavy cable to the starter normally always has twelve volts. It has nothing to do with anything else.

jt20 12-31-2019 10:00 PM

update:

tested the NSS for voltage in the driver's footwell - I get 12 volts turning the key to crank / start position

bypassed the NSS on the harness in the footwell and tried cranking - nothing.

still no glow, still no 'thunk' turn off from the GP relay after waiting.

Can the GP relay cause a no-start if it went bad? I didnt think it could.

Battery light still on after key is removed.

battery arcs when connected and alternator is connected. but not when the alt is disconnected.

jt20 12-31-2019 10:01 PM

Could a shorted starter cause the GP relay to not engage?

I have not tested the starter yet to see what power is being supplied during cranking.

jt20 12-31-2019 10:43 PM

Another update:

There is 12 volts between all the connections on the starter - small Phillips head on solenoid, the large nuts, and ground (starter case). - all tested in different configurations

However, there is 12 volts without the key turned.

#stumped

upod 12-31-2019 11:04 PM

Is there an alarm on the car? Maybe there is one and someone disconnected the horn and you don't hear it go off..

Can you turn the engine over by hand (engine is not seized up)?

What happens when you jumper starter solenoid to the 17mm bolt on the starter? Anything?


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