W123 Axles: What do I have and what is this play? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

JHZR2 · #1 03-30-2020, 06:09 PM

Car is my 82 300CD. Had heard driveline noise, so I put it up to investigate. Both sides have about the same side to side play, when I try to slide the joints further in or out of the diff or hub. The right side has vertical play that is very loud, at the hub/wheel.

Hope the video embeds:

https://youtu.be/qHjquSO7EvU

Also, what kind of axles are these? Seems they are the type that do not unbolt at the diff, but what else? These were installed by a mechanic when I first got the car. Thought they were OE, but I don’t recall seeing a rusty w123 cv on any car I’ve owned. So I assume they’re new Chinese? No MB markings anywhere.

Thanks!

Diesel911 · #2 03-30-2020, 08:10 PM

I don't recall seeing any marking on my MB Axles. Unfortunately on my Home Commuter I cannot watch the vid.
You did not say when you got your car. It has only been 4-5 years since noticed new Lobreo Axles for sale in the $350-400 range. If the Mechanic had installed a new one of those you surely would have remembered the cost.

Before that time the only new Axles were Asian ones.

The original Mercedes Axles that were available were from rebuilders like Cardone (I put these on my Car) or the famous CVJ. The Cardone rebuilts are sold by the local part store chains.

So if the replaced axle was new and did not cost $350-400 each it is most likely Asian. And the new Asian made Axles and rebuilt Cardone Axles are what is easily available.

IF the Axles were rebuilt by CVJ you there would have been a wait to get them and a cost over what a new Asian Axle would cost.

t walgamuth · #3 03-30-2020, 08:48 PM

up and down play is bad. if unchecked the cv will eventually come apart.

inzgary · #4 03-30-2020, 09:03 PM

Both the new Chinese and OE axles have the annular bolt style now. Those you have must have been rebuilds.

JHZR2 · #5 03-30-2020, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

I don't recall seeing any marking on my MB Axles. Unfortunately on my Home Commuter I cannot watch the vid.
You did not say when you got your car. It has only been 4-5 years since noticed new Lobreo Axles for sale in the $350-400 range. If the Mechanic had installed a new one of those you surely would have remembered the cost.

Before that time the only new Axles were Asian ones.

The original Mercedes Axles that were available were from rebuilders like Cardone (I put these on my Car) or the famous CVJ. The Cardone rebuilts are sold by the local part store chains.

So if the replaced axle was new and did not cost $350-400 each it is most likely Asian. And the new Asian made Axles and rebuilt Cardone Axles are what is easily available.

IF the Axles were rebuilt by CVJ you there would have been a wait to get them and a cost over what a new Asian Axle would cost.

I can’t go out now to get photos, but here’s a couple screen captures of the video:

It was more than 4-5 years ago. Probably more like 10.

What is striking to me is the rust. This car doesn’t see snow or salt, and it barely sees rain. So for them to be this rusty was an eye opener to me. I seem to recall when I had an OE joint installed on my 1983, back in ~2002, they were all painted black and what was metal was cadmium plated.

JHZR2 · #6 03-30-2020, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inzgary

Both the new Chinese and OE axles have the annular bolt style now. Those you have must have been rebuilds.

Mine have the cans at both sides, no bolts. That means they’re homokinetic?

So if I get a different one, other than say, from cvj, it will be the annular bolt style and I’ll bolt the flange into the diff?

Does that flange piece make sense to get from the dealer/a used OE part then? I’m not sure I trust aftermarket stuff, and the one not easily swapped part is that flange, since you have to dig into the diff. I’d hate for it to become one of these ugly rusty parts.

inzgary · #7 03-31-2020, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHZR2

Mine have the cans at both sides, no bolts. That means they’re homokinetic?

So if I get a different one, other than say, from cvj, it will be the annular bolt style and I’ll bolt the flange into the diff?

Does that flange piece make sense to get from the dealer/a used OE part then? I’m not sure I trust aftermarket stuff, and the one not easily swapped part is that flange, since you have to dig into the diff. I’d hate for it to become one of these ugly rusty parts.

You have the old style homokinetic axles. I took a close look at the old axles I have laying around and yours don't look like OE. Upgrading to the new annular style is a straight remove and replace. They come assembled, you don't get the flange separate. OE axle shafts were expensive but I don't see them listed on here anymore. You'll probably be better off looking for a good rebooted homokinetic OE pair. This is the guide I followed for the R&R: W123 A How to, replacing rear axles.

shadetreemechan · #8 04-01-2020, 07:53 AM

All my 123s are now running annular axles from advance auto parts. I saw them recommended on here and they seem to be holding up well. I had terrible luck with reliability on several brands bought online as well as the autozone lifetime crap.

Diesel911 · #9 04-01-2020, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHZR2

I can’t go out now to get photos, but here’s a couple screen captures of the video:

It was more than 4-5 years ago. Probably more like 10.

What is striking to me is the rust. This car doesn’t see snow or salt, and it barely sees rain. So for them to be this rusty was an eye opener to me. I seem to recall when I had an OE joint installed on my 1983, back in ~2002, they were all painted black and what was metal was cadmium plated.

I have never seen any pictures of axles that look like that.

JHZR2 · #10 04-01-2020, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

I have never seen any pictures of axles that look like that.

Ditto. Not consistent with any axles on any w123 cars I’ve owned.

JHZR2 · #11 04-01-2020, 06:22 PM

Update: Definitely found its at the outboard part of the joint. The outer cam moves, as does the washer on the axle bolt. But the axle bolt is tight.

But here’s a video of the can movement:
https://youtu.be/brC6XZvhPdo

And with the wheel removed, here’s the movement of the axle bolt/washer:

https://youtu.be/p4jCOIwmuBE

Does this mean cv splines aren’t sized right, or the rear inner bearings are shot?

Diesel911 · #12 04-01-2020, 07:00 PM

In the manual the washer at the end of the axle is called a tensioning washer. It also has to replace the tensioning washer after one use. So if your Axle slides in an out of the hub at the very least you need to replace the Washer.
However pay attention as there is different sized Axle end Bolts.

JHZR2 · #13 04-01-2020, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

In the manual the washer at the end of the axle is called a tensioning washer. It also has to replace the tensioning washer after one use. So if your Axle slides in an out of the hub at the very least you need to replace the Washer.
However pay attention as there is different sized Axle end Bolts.

It doesn’t slide in and out. It moves up and down. Or more specifically the can body and the splined shaft seem to move up and down. When the weight is on the wheels, there’s lots of play. When hanging there’s a lot less, to the point that to test it after the wheel was off, I had to put a second jack under the control arm and lift it up. The video I posted of the play in the washer was with the arm jacked just a few inches.

It almost seems like the splined shaft is too small. Like it mates sufficiently to drive, but it’s not a good fit.

shadetreemechan · #14 04-01-2020, 10:07 PM

I have had bad luck with the axles with those long "cans". My assumption is that the cans are a manufacturing short cut to allow a generic axle with cv's on both ends to be produced in mass and the "cans" are sized to fit different car applications. I have bought china new axles with the cans, and the only consistency I have found in their size is by manufacturer.
The long cans put more lateral force on the cv joint itself and I have not had any that lasted more than about 40K miles.