Daimler will pay $2.2 billion to settle it's US diesel emissions cheating scandal - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

sloride · #16 08-16-2020, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

More like 40-41,000 a year. Total involved vehicles was around 250k.

Its all a sham anyways, our emissions laws are incredibly warped and designed to appease the oil companies. Aka, an 8,000lb v8 gas pickup is A-ok, while a small diesel sedan is scrutinized to no end.

To true.

sloride · #17 08-16-2020, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

I wonder if they will buy mine back at a ridiculous price?

I will, is a thousand ridiculous enough. I hope you agree.

Graham · #18 08-16-2020, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

I have put over 5K miles on my 015 ML250. So far it has not asked for any of the blue stuff....does that seem normal?

Probably OK. I seem to recall that the Adblue was supposed to last long enough so that it would only need refilling at normal service intervals - 10k miles/1 yr in USA?

t walgamuth · #19 08-16-2020, 10:08 PM

Thanks!

pawoSD · #20 08-16-2020, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

I have put over 5K miles on my 015 ML250. So far it has not asked for any of the blue stuff....does that seem normal?

When I did a full Adblue service on mine back in March (sucking remainder out then filling with all new Adblue) I had gone about 11,000 miles since topping it off the last time and there was still a few liters left in there.

Depending on driving/conditions/weather/temp etc its probably around 12-15k miles.

t walgamuth · #21 08-16-2020, 11:29 PM

Thanks again!

tjts1 · #22 08-17-2020, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham

What the class actions are about, are not the reliability of the Bluetec system (which based on reports, could be questionable), but about the fact that Blutec is designed not to function at all, once the ambient temperatures goes below 10degC.

This was not made known to buyers (nor likely dealers) who may have thought they were buying/selling a "clean" diesel. Depending on where you live, operation at under 10C could be a fairly large percentage of the use. In Europe, where Bluetec was developed certainly an issue and here in Canada perhaps even moreso.

We never had any emissions problems, but we only drove 50K Km in 5 yrs. I did insist they change the early NOx sensors (that were known to fail) before our first trip to USA. When those fail, you get that 10 start limit to get you to nearest dealer!

Our extended warranty did not cover some of the emission components and did not cover us when we were in USA. So she had to go

This is correct. Just like VW, MBs cheat device was hidden in the software. VW used the steering angle sensor and temperature to recognize when the car was on an emissions Dyno. MB used temperature. The biggest difference between MB and VW is that MB admitted to the cheating as soon as they were caught. VW tried to cover it up for months. That's why there's such a huge disparity in the fines they're paying.

The diesel passenger car is dead both here and in Europe.

barry12345 · #23 08-17-2020, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

I wonder if they will buy mine back at a ridiculous price?

Cost too much to find out. You may be able to still sign up for the class action lawsuit anyways. Worth checking on.

Selling an old geezer an illegal polluting vehicle without his knowledge is a crime of some magnitude. By any manufacturer.

Tom who is it that said buying diesel vehicles does not pay off? Try not to lose track of all the cheques you get. I sometimes forget some I have folded up and left in my wallet. Stale dated cheques are a pain on occasion.

barry12345 · #24 08-17-2020, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham

Being in Canada, the US settlement won't apply. But there is a separate class action here that I am part of.

I got rid of my GLK250 after 5 years. Mainly because of concerns over emission system maintenance cost once warranty expired. Too bad, because I thought I had bought a car that would last me forever, like our W123 diesel. And it is great little car. Too bad we couldn't have got the CDI version.

When you get a rebuilt converter. It is brutally expensive. The matrix filter they change in it when rebuilding is only 15-20 dollars when ordered from China where the original dpf filters are made. I suspect they just cut off one end and remove the damaged matrix and pop a new one in and weld it back up again. Becoming the rebuilt a dealer installs for how much?

barry12345 · #25 08-17-2020, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

I have put over 5K miles on my 015 ML250. So far it has not asked for any of the blue stuff....does that seem normal?

I think so Tom. Frequency of need is even higher milage on the Passat diesel. At least six thousand miles. After the modification it was to be less millage but ours is not it seems.

barry12345 · #26 08-17-2020, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham

What the class actions are about, are not the reliability of the Bluetec system (which based on reports, could be questionable), but about the fact that Blutec is designed not to function at all, once the ambient temperatures goes below 10degC.

This was not made known to buyers (nor likely dealers) who may have thought they were buying/selling a "clean" diesel. Depending on where you live, operation at under 10C could be a fairly large percentage of the use. In Europe, where Bluetec was developed certainly an issue and here in Canada perhaps even moreso.

We never had any emissions problems, but we only drove 50K Km in 5 yrs. I did insist they change the early NOx sensors (that were known to fail) before our first trip to USA. When those fail, you get that 10 start limit to get you to nearest dealer!

Our extended warranty did not cover some of the emission components and did not cover us when we were in USA. So she had to go

Volkswagons extended warranty is pretty inclusive. The only thing that raised questions in my mind. Is get the car in two thousand kilometers before the warranty ends. To determine the percentage of buildup in the matrix.

As the warranty reads otherwise you are past it if you are right on the maintenance schedule. Volkswagon will charge you for a replacement matrix. Not unreasonably to be expected at 120,000 miles.

Someone that was instrumental in having that warranty drawn up was all too familiar with volkswagon practices and may have demanded strange clauses. Like the customer must be deemed right. Without that clause In the extended warranty I personally would have considered it virtually worthless. I never want to ever again have to deal with volkswagons so called customer service.

Volkswagon still does not meet the diesel pollution standards after they were modified. This was allowed by the governments. It was an agreement arranged by the parties.

pawoSD · #27 08-17-2020, 02:57 PM

The way MB went about it was more of a sly warping of the rules than outright cheating. The EPA test specifies a temp range it needs to meet emissions within and that is also the temp tests are conducted at. So MB took that literally and just turns the system off below those temps. A loophole. Shady? Yes Truly Illegal? Not technically....

TimFreeh · #28 03-14-2021, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

The way MB went about it was more of a sly warping of the rules than outright cheating. The EPA test specifies a temp range it needs to meet emissions within and that is also the temp tests are conducted at. So MB took that literally and just turns the system off below those temps. A loophole. Shady? Yes Truly Illegal? Not technically....

I don't think its shady at all, you publish a spec and Mercedes meets the spec. If you wanted the system to be operational in all temperature ranges than specify a temperature ranges, or better yet an emission profile, that you want met for the condition at hand.

If there was no specification for the temperature point how can you say it was cheating? Based on your interpretations of what exactly?

I find it absolutely hilarious that the EPA finds fault with Mercedes for meeting the EPA specs to the letter. Of course nobody ever faults the EPA for defining the specs too loosely... or at all in this case.

As I understand it the Mercedes software operates the same way in the dyno tests as it does in the real-world. VW apparently changed the fueling strategy when the car determined it was on a dyno - that certainly is cheating and shady.

Had my first Bluetec failure in the GLK a couple of months ago. Got a CE light indicating a failure of the Adblue heating element in the DEF tank.

The heating element is pretty easy to change, there is apparently an issue for very early GLK's that came equipped with a DEF tank that has a non-serviceable heating element - those cars require replacement of the entire DEF tank at a cost of over $1,000. Fortunately my car had the replaceable element tank and the total cost was more like $300.

Haven't heard anything from MB regarding the Bluetec settlement changes.

t walgamuth · #29 03-14-2021, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

The way MB went about it was more of a sly warping of the rules than outright cheating. The EPA test specifies a temp range it needs to meet emissions within and that is also the temp tests are conducted at. So MB took that literally and just turns the system off below those temps. A loophole. Shady? Yes Truly Illegal? Not technically....

This is what i thought it would turn out to be.....technically legal but not in the spirit the laws were written.

barry12345 · #30 03-14-2021, 09:52 PM

I think the chances of the later diesel cars being on the road for twenty years. Is just not that great. Most repair jobs seem too expensive. I doubt the injectors can even be rebuilt.

Plus a few systems that were not really all that reliable from new. Wll most likely do it again. Several times perhaps.