Second thread, now that i know what motor I have..

First of I want low end torque, good for maneuvering over objects slowly of froad and in daily traffic. This rig will mostly be a daily driver.

The current cruising rpms are

For stock 3.54 gearing and 33 inch current tires
2235rpms @ 70mph
2554rpms @ 80mph

I could also regear if you think it's needed

For 4.11’s and 33”s
2602rpms @ 70mph
2974rpms @ 80mph


I was looking at turbo and injection pump upgrades. The donor car has over 300,000 miles and a leaky head gasket.

Removing the head and having it refreshed along with revealing all the injector lines is a no brained.

With the local diesel diesel shop wanting 800 to rebuild the injection pump stock I figured why not just get the USA based Benz guys to build it and put in larger elements for not much more. They likely know them better.

As for the turbo, please correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the om602 a t25 flange? I will delete all the factory emissions items as well as factory waste gate.

I will also be adding an intercooler.

I'd like a quick spooling turbo. Making boost/power by 1500 to 1900 rpms would be optimal.


I've looked at the holset he221 and he200. If anyone could recommend.

The name of the game is power and low egts. I won't need it to Rev past 4000 rpms, possibly under a passing on the freeway situation but never more than 3200 rpms sustained.

The rig weighs 5000 or so lbs.

The goal isn't to make more than 180 hp but extra hp on tap will not cause complaints.

I will also be examining the bottom end bearings for wear, new timing chain/tensioner/guides.

Reliability is key. I don't know much about the peak hp/torque range of the 602.


Any recommendations would be great.

The stock engine was originally making maybe 180 hp and 250 ft lbs of torque, a 450 lbs 4.0 v8.

Seems like a lotta truck to pull with a pretty small engine. If you go ahead with it don't try to run high gear ratios.

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

It's similar to the 111hp 195 ft lbs torque 2.5 300tdi, discovery 2 models all over the globe came with this motor, just not in the USA

FWIW, a comparable platform the 461 G-Wagons used the NA 602. It was a dog speed wise but had no issue handling off road use. A popular conversion is to swap in a 602 Turbo to boost overall performance.

Pump element size increase and a intercooler will help the most in terms of power gains and keeping your EGTs manageable. 6-6.5mm Elements seem to be the most popular pump upgrades.

Boost is variable based on the powerband desired, but in general is not a shortfall of your current engine choice. Your current T25 turbo can easily provide an extra 6-8psi of boost thru a BCV if you have the intercooler and fueling needed to offset the EGTs. Those little things spin up quick, my T30 starts boosting at 800rpm and is full 15psi at 2000.

A minor point of curiosity, it applies to the OM603 exhaust manifold, but cant see why it would'nt also apply to your 602 donor, may be worth you checking. On the 603 manifold there is a M10 bolt at the #1 port, that is used for exhaust analysis/testing etc by MB, and is a super convenient spot to thread in a VDO K1 EGT Temp probe. I have been using mine this way for nearly 20 years, super easy factory provided tap in for a EGT gauge. You may have that on your manifold as well if you choose to keep the set-up stock.

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Stable Mates:
1987 300TD 310K mi (Hans)
2008 Jeep Grand Cherokee OM642 165k mi (Benzrokee)

Thanks for the input.

As of now the idea is to freshen the motor and add more power, keeping her reliable.

I will be losing the abs thanks to the engine swap as well as traction control.

Along with a cdl manual engagement for off road use I will install Detroit tru tracks to assist/strengthen performance the abs and traction control originally controlled.

While the differentials are apart that would be a good time for a regear.

I ran a 4bd1t in my fj60 for years, keeping the 3.73 stock gearing. I had no issues maintaining highway speeds with 3.9 liters of 135 hp and 240 ft lbs of torque.

With that motor I ran out of rpm before I hit 75 on 31 inch tires.

he 3.9 had good torque but I'm hoping the om602 will have more pep. Boost at 800 rpms is a great number. . My 170 hp bhw tdi motor is like a Ferrari motor compared to the 4bd1t, and at half the weight.
I'm confident the om602 and it's added displacement can prove better than both.

Perhaps just modifying the waste gate and 6 to 6.5 elements will lead to enough performance to meet or exceed slightly over the weak 4.0 v8 in there now.

The gearing for the diesel discovery 2 was slightly different but I think it was 1.41 high transfer gear in the diesel vs 1.22 in the gasser.

After some email exchanges with benze force 7 or 7.5 elements are all I can get. No biggie.


After some research, along with upgraded waste gate it seems that 200hp is obtainable on the stock turbo.

If this is the case that is good news from a budgeting standpoint. Even with the upgraded pump and intercooler isn't 15psi max on this turbo?

Probably will need to continue researching this more.


The stock T25 turbo should be good to between 1-1.2 bar (15-17ish psi) way more than needed if all you are doing if maxing out the full load screw on your existing pump without increasing the elements. Add to that an intercooler, making for a denser charge, your boost will drop at least 2 psi. Increasing boost without significantly increasing fueling will not produce any appreciable power, it will increase your EGT's though.

Your base engine has a lot of room to play with performance wise. You can go crazy with it and get north of 300hp. There are many sources for performance upgrades namely in Europe, so modifying it to suit your needs should not be a problem.

At the moment, the greatest limiting factors IMO is the packaging. It still has to be fitted to the Disco, and that will have to be accomplished prior to making other commitments to the engine, as the packaging will dictate your exhaust, intake, intercooler plumbing etc. Without the packaging being completed, this will be very difficult to plan for in advance. Once installed and mated to your existing trans, xfer and gearing you will have better info as to what works well with each other and where tweaks could be made to the gearing or the engine, or the engine's ideal powerband for your specific setup.

I'm sure that the Landie world has some great insights into what others confronted in their swaps. Hope this helps you somewhat.

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Stable Mates:
1987 300TD 310K mi (Hans)
2008 Jeep Grand Cherokee OM642 165k mi (Benzrokee)

The OP asked:
How would you build an OM602.962 for a land rover?

Consider beginning with enough chain to reach the bottom at high water, in the chosen location for mooring your sailboat, and with a mooring buoy on the surface!!

Sold my sailboat a few years back. The new express cruiser has a nice delta/windlass set up.

So are you saying that 7 to 7.5 elements won't give enough fuelling to hit 150 to 200 hp?

I must have misunderstood your previous post, I thought you were posibly staying with the stock pump, but if you are going to 7-7.5mm elements you'll easily be in the 200+ range.

If you have the choice between 7mm or 7.5mm, that's great. There is debate as to whether the 7.5mm is too large for some users and may lead to idle issues. Probably worth looking into. Some of the initial pump tuners started with 7.5mm or 8mm only, but tuners have expanded and so have the choices and some have had better results with the smaller elements. I believe your current baseline is 5.5-6mm.

__________________
Stable Mates:
1987 300TD 310K mi (Hans)
2008 Jeep Grand Cherokee OM642 165k mi (Benzrokee)

Benzeforce only has access to 7.5s for the om602. I have sent him an email asking about any idle issues. I can't find more than 2 or 3 threads covering the 602 with 7.5mm but none have mentioned idle issues. The 2 found in a land rover disco application never divulged into performance in on road situations. I have contacted both and await response.

The others were all in a benze chassis and seem to have been built in a dyno/super turbo diesel style where spool time took a back seat to max horse power. Big holsets.



A few mentioned the 7.5mm upgrade would deliver well more than my max of 200 hp goal.

With the awd rover I'll never put it on a dyno.

If benzforce pumps have external ALDA adjustments you should be able to dial in the fueling. Check out the g wagon forums, granted its all benz, but the 602 turbo swaps are common as are ip mods. Given the similarity of platforms, weight, gearing, and usage I would suspect their insights would be helpful given your project. As you mentioned most of the tuners are shooting for dyno performance better suited to a lighter car chassis. Just a thought.

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Stable Mates:
1987 300TD 310K mi (Hans)
2008 Jeep Grand Cherokee OM642 165k mi (Benzrokee)

Seriously, a 602 needs to be wound out to get any acceleration in a stock E class. l think it be the last engine I would choose for rock climbing.

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

with engine out rings an bearings, and hone liners. make balance power, an mpg.keep where compression can burn old motor oil with fuel. use polygycol antifreeze at 1005. 0 pressure cap.

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1999 w140, quit voting to old, and to old to fight, a god damned veteran