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#1
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Possible Engine Swap (617 to 616) / Body Swap
Hello,
As silly as this may seem, I have a question about swapping a 4 cyl 616 engine into a car originally with a 5 cyl 617 (with turbo). The background is that I have a 1982 240D that ran and drove perfectly. Automatic transmission, 616 engine, no complaints. Unfortunately it was wrecked and the inner/outer driver's fender, hood, and radiator core support metal work all need replacement. Also add to it the glowplug relay wiring, headlamp wiring, and a few other odds and ends from the wreck. The transmission linkage is also now misaligned (can't find neutral from inside the car). Everything else seems okay and the car can still run and drive. I have found, after two years, a donor car in the right price range. It is a W123 300D turbodiesel (four door, not a wagon). The body is in "perfect" shape for a 1983 car (similar amount of rust spots to my 240). This car has a complete 5 cylinder engine and turbo, but I was told it has no compression. Assuming we discount this engine as a total loss (which is probably premature), I have two options: 1) Cut apart the perfect 300D body and slap it onto the 240D. I have 0 experience hacking apart bodywork and no welding experience. I don't really like this option. 2) Remove the 4cyl, the auto transmission, and the rear axle from the 240D and slap it into the 300D. If I go this option, given that I have all the body components of both cars, am I likely to run into any issues? All I can find on the forums is fitting the 5cyl into the 4 cyl space. I assume that my complete drivetrain would drop in, but I am a little uncertain with how the subframe/ engine mounts will line up. Were there two factory positions drilled into the car to specify where to place the subframe/mounts? I want to make sure that I'm not missing anything major or that I would need to source any other parts to make the conversion work. I know that aside from the powertrain differences, the 300 and 240 have "gizmo" differences (manual windows in my 240, sunroof and electronic windows in the 300). Any guidance on this would be greatly appreciated! |
#2
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Should not be an issue. I'd swap both engine and transmission. You may need the driveshaft from the 300D too.
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Jim |
#3
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You mean the drive shaft from the 240D, right? I would be trying to put the entire drive unit from the 240D into the 300D body. I assume the exhaust from the 240D has to follow as well? |
#4
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Yea, after thinking about it just pay attention to the 240D versus 300D driveshaft length. They should be same, I'm just not sure whether both cars share same tranny. I'd try to keep the 300D transmission with the 300D engine.
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Jim |
#5
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Thanks for the replies.
I know the 5 cyl engine has the shorter driveshaft. Also, the trans crossmember is probably set back 4 inches or so versus the 240 engine. Not sure what I plan on doing with the "presumed dead" 300D engine and transmission, but I would try to drop the whole entire 240 powertrain over (204 engine, trans, drive shaft, trans subframe, exhaust, rear diff) to the 300 body. |
#6
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You need to switch the entire drive train over...plus the radiator and oil cooler. This includes the trans mount. The rear drive shaft will be the same so no need to switch it over. You also need to change the speedo and the shift linkage.
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC] ..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis. |
#7
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Do you happen to know if there are bolt holes for moving the trans mount? Or do I need to drill new holes on the 300D to fit the trans mount from 240D closer to the engine? The oil cooler is an additional radiator, correct? It's been a while since i've looked at my 240 unfortunately. |
#8
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IIRC the bolt holes should be in place.
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Jim |
#9
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If no holes exist you can drill them.
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC] ..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis. |
#10
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They are present.
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1983 300D Midnight Blue 4 speed, W115 intake mani, non-EGR exhaust mani, KKK K26, 3 pc Euro bumpers, Lo-spec Euro headlights, AL129X, hubcaps, custom A/C 1987 300TD Smoke Silver Euro headlights, thermostat relocation, coolant bypass mod, rebuilt Becker + Jehnert + Helix audio, OEM Oris roof boxes and surfboard racks, Euro towbar 1983 300TD Reed (Moss) Green / Dark Olive MB Tex Euro spec 1983 300TD Silver Blue / Blue cloth Euro spec, OM648 and 722.6, 15" hubcaps, W126 S2 brakes |
#11
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With the donor and recipient being the same chassis, everything will bolt right in. You will need to keep the glow plug relay, accelerator linkage, driveshaft, trans crossmember, shift rod, differential, and speedometer/odometer section together when moving it to the other car. Everything is bolt in, with no modification needed. You can even use the turbo radiator and expansion tank. If the 240 oil cooler has both lines going in the bottom, you will need to use it, regardless which radiator you use.
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All Diesel Fleet 1985 R107 300SLD TURBODIESEL 2005 E320 CDI (daily) LOTS of parts for sale! EGR block kit http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/355250-sale-egr-delete-block-off-plate-kit.html 1985 CA emissions 617 owners- You Need This! Sanden style A/C Compressor Mounting Kit for your 616/ 617 For Sale + Install Inst. Sanden Instalation Guide (post 11): http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/367883-sanden-retrofit-installation-guide.html |
#12
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Thanks for the comments on the trans support bolt holes! Good to know!
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Here's hoping the seller can find a valid title so I can get to work on this project! |
#13
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In the swap you're probably going to have to swap the differential as the manual and automatic transmission cars have different ratios.
Could the donor car not just have the engine rebuilt? Seems like an easier job. Phil Forrest
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1972 220D "Trudy," named by a friend. "The 220D sounds good... I suspect it is the only car that you need a calendar for, rather than a stopwatch, when doing acceleration tests." Tom Abrahamsson |
#14
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With the new donor car, I absolutely will spend some time trying to evaluate the engine. The extent of my knowledge was that it had compression (320ish psi?). The owner then let the cylinders soak in WD40 to try and free up presumably stuck piston rings and gain compression. When trying to crank over after letting them sit for a bit, he got 0 compression... I will have to try and chase this all up myself and see what's up. I believe he replaced the timing tensioner spring and did not adjust valves yet. So I'm hoping for something easy like poor valve adjustment or timing marks out of time. If the donor car engine is anything too much, I would rather let the spirit of my 240D live on in another body. If I can fix the 300engine, I guess I'll need to find another donor body/front end for the 240, lol! |
#15
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Quote:
__________________
All Diesel Fleet 1985 R107 300SLD TURBODIESEL 2005 E320 CDI (daily) LOTS of parts for sale! EGR block kit http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/355250-sale-egr-delete-block-off-plate-kit.html 1985 CA emissions 617 owners- You Need This! Sanden style A/C Compressor Mounting Kit for your 616/ 617 For Sale + Install Inst. Sanden Instalation Guide (post 11): http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/367883-sanden-retrofit-installation-guide.html |
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