Shop wants $2000 to install floor pans - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Junkman · #1 01-28-2022, 09:07 AM

My 85 300TD needs floor pans and a shop wants $2000 labor plus materials to install them. I don't want to spend that much but also don't weed (yet).

I'm in the process of finishing a shop with 2 post lift. How difficult is learning to weld?

What other long lasting options are there?

oldsinner111 · #2 01-28-2022, 09:14 AM

rivet leaving a edge, seal with primer, then fiberglass cloth and resin

martureo · #3 01-28-2022, 09:14 AM

Don't rivet or use fiberglass. They are only temporary repairs that will fail.

I'm doing the metalwork myself, but I don't have a garage (anymore) and its taken quite a bit of time.

I would read through my thread and see if its something you really want to do. I guarantee that if you think you just have floor pans to do, then you're sadly mistaken. The rust is going to be elsewhere and you're going to spend weeks chasing it.

https://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/404186-w123-floor-rust-repair.html

Learning to weld isn't hard, but it comes with lots of practice, lots of mistakes and learning as you do it.

87tdwagen · #4 01-28-2022, 09:34 AM

I'll second what Martureo said, really, really inspect the scope of your work. An old body man I knew said the rust that you see is often only 25% of what you will find. Scope creep escalates exponentially.

If you want to do this sometime in the future, welding is the best way to go. You can spend the time between now and then acquiring the skill, not hard, but requires lots of practice. Moreso when dealing with sheet metal as that will take a deft hand not to blow thru. Even more so as your replacement floor pans will undoubtedly be of a thinner gauge than the stock sheet metal you are welding it to. So you could practice all of this beforehand to be confident if you want to take on the project. Get familiar with weld-thru primers, panel bond adhesives and seam sealers in your learning journey, they will come in handy if your proceed.

Sugar Bear · #5 01-28-2022, 01:34 PM

Look for a welder that would weld the floorplans in place if you gut the necessary interior pieces, cut out the old and temporarily secure the new pieces.

Floors are structural and must be secured properly to maintain collision safety.

cmac2012 · #6 01-28-2022, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Junkman

My 85 300TD needs floor pans and a shop wants $2000 labor plus materials to install them. I don't want to spend that much but also don't weed (yet).

I'm in the process of finishing a shop with 2 post lift. How difficult is learning to weld?

Welding is a serious artform. Takes quite a bit of experience to be good at it. I took a couple of community college classes, eventually bought a Lincoln 220 V MIG welder.

I formerly had gas vehicles, two models BMW325i (E30). I was able to weld on new CATs, wasn’t pretty but it worked. My former shop neighbor was one of the best welders I’ve ever seen. I’ll never be as good as him. I just don’t have years worth of work as a welder ahead of me. I’m glad I can do it and have the welder, has come in handy many times. But I don’t think I could do a good job at what you’re looking at.

shadetreemechan · #7 01-29-2022, 08:16 AM

All of the above is true. If you try to learn to weld by doing floorpans, you will end up using fiberglass cloth and resin to cover your mistakes.
By the time you are done, you will probably be a better welder, but you will wonder why you didn't just start out with fiberglass, resin and cloth because it would have been easier, faster, and cheaper.
As for permanence, I have fiberglass repairs that are still going strong 15 years later. The key is to remove or encapsulate rust and fix the water intrusion issue that caused it in the first place.
Fiberglass repairs fail because the metal around them continues to rust.
Welded repairs do the exact same thing.
Fix the leak and either will last a long time.

Junkman · #8 01-29-2022, 08:46 AM

The leak is gone. I haven't been satisfied with the people who do refurb on old cars. The TD sat for a year with no progress. I left it there because it might have been done and I was out of parking space so it was free storage. Still, the car deteriorated.

Some of the paint needs a do over and the the guy will likely do it but we're waiting for him to move shops.

The other local person hasn't kept his word on other things so I only buy stuff from him discounted cash and carry. It's too bad my friend who did bodywork retired.

Bottom line, I need a good option for this car. It's basically a sound wagon that could be a good driver.

Mike D · #9 01-29-2022, 09:14 AM

You guys are sure willing to slam the shop without knowing all the facts.

A: What is the extent of the rust?
B: Will the shop need to pull and replace the interior parts?
C: This is on a TD which is a much more extensive repair than on a standard W123

In the case of A, perhaps the shop is familiar with the fact that the extent of visible rust is merely the tip of the iceberg.

For B, replacing the floor pans is more involved than just cutting out the old and slapping in the new. You've got brake, fuel and vacuum lines to contend with. Not to mention wiring and various mounts for seats, seat belts, exhaust brackets, etc.

This is a mono-body style of construct so the floor pans are a critical element. Liability definitely is in the shop owner's mind.

Do ya think a skilled welder is worth more than the minimum wage employee serving fast food?

$2000 comes out to about 80 hours of actual welding time at a paltry $25 per hour. This isn't accounting for; supplies, shop time, removal/replacing of parts, rust proofing, sound deadening, etc. which would be the majority of the labor hours. Figure on a minimum of 20-40 hours of just labor.

IF and only IF, the car showed up with the interior completely stripped and all non-removable parts shielded (grinders throw metal particles which will etch glass and plastic) and the owner was going to replace those items themselves would I say the cost was unreasonable.

What do the shops in your area charge per hour for regular labor costs?

Junkman · #10 01-29-2022, 10:04 AM

The interior is completely out except for the driver's seat. We only discussed floor pans. He would need to remove 4 bolts for the seat which are new and not rusted and deal with lines under the floor. Sound deadening has been completely removed also.

$2k was for replacing the floor and installing whatever lines are underneath. I was going to deal with undercoating and whatever else needed doing. I've since had to go back over some previous repairs this guy has done and it isn't up to what I require.

He has some cars I'd like to get but doubt he'll be at a price needed now that I have a better idea of how he does business.

Most shops want insurance work only and there aren't many that will even do this type of work where it can't be flat rated.

Mike D · #11 01-29-2022, 10:40 AM

It's always handy to know all the facts. With the information you now have provided, I agree the price is too high.

t walgamuth · #12 01-29-2022, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldsinner111

rivet leaving a edge, seal with primer, then fiberglass cloth and resin

There is nothing wrong with a quick and easy repair. If it is needed the car is likely not worth a lot on the open market in any case. If you just need basic transportation this is a much better investment than other alternatives. I used to do it all the time....sometimes using old license plates sheet metal screws and roofing cement.

Guys committing themselves to redoing floors with metal and welding are making often a ten year commitment to it. How many guys here have started such a project? Now....how many have finished them?

Mike D · #13 01-30-2022, 08:19 AM

I've done several and yes, it is a major commitment. Your post brought back memories Tom.

I lived for years in the Rust Belt states and I remember patching many a pickup floorboard with old road signs. This was before they started using aluminum for the signs.

Had a '53 F100 which I swear was about a third original steel, a third discarded road signs and an ever-increasing proportion of rust.

BillGrissom · #14 02-01-2022, 07:27 PM

Haven't touched my M-B floor-pans and they look tedious since some type of rubbery coating you would have to remove at least 4" from the cut so it doesn't smoke as you weld. I did replace the right floor-pan in my 1965 Dart since rusted thru throughout (where AC condensate ends up or usually leaking coolant from heater core). The left pan just required a few patches. I bought a cheap pan on rock for $55 which took a little hammering in the corners to fit. I made the mistake of cutting it to butt-weld which was very tedious to match and caused numerous blow-thrus. If again, I would overlap the sheets 1/8" and try to run a bead on both sides (can't access everywhere underneath). I since found that some body shops don't try butt-welding even outer body repairs, just lap welding then level w/ Bondo. Nobody will see a floor-pan, so skip that fuss. If you do want to butt-weld in the future, watch youtubes where one trick is to tack the patch, then cut both w/ a thin grinder cutting wheel at 45 deg angle so they slip together nice without falling thru.

I used my cheap $90 Harbor Freight wire-flux welder (no gas). It spits, so protect everything. Tack it in place many places so it won't warp out of shape as you weld. I don't think you can run a continuous bead in sheet metal, just lots of little tacks until they merge. Perhaps with TIG you could run a continuous line. Grind the tacks flush and don't be afraid to cover w/ fiberglass mesh if needed (many blow-thrus). One way is to use Bondo Glass which has fiberglass fibers. Supposedly, you can fill a blow-thru by holding a copper spoon behind and adding weld by spiraling inward, but usually doesn't work for me. My welder just allow "low" or "high" power setting, so "low" isn't quite low enough. For tacks, I don't know that wire speed matters much. A presumably "pro" shop had repaired my 1964 Valiant Convertible by just welding a flat sheet over the rusted floor pans. I'll have to go back and fix that someday. At least they just tacked them in a few places, so cutting out will be easy. Those who will inevitably fuss about "structural concerns" are Chicken Littles who probably never noticed a motorcycle. As long as the periphery including the tranny tunnel is sound, the center of the floor-pan adds little additional structure.

Mike D · #15 02-01-2022, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillGrissom

Those who will inevitably fuss about "structural concerns" are Chicken Littles who probably never noticed a motorcycle. As long as the periphery including the tranny tunnel is sound, the center of the floor-pan adds little additional structure.

Those who claim to know about structural integrity and compare the unibody construction of a Mercedes Benz to that of a 1960's era Dodge with its body on frame rails design should probably actually do some research.

So, tell me, if the triple tree on your motorcycle, which isn't part of the "periphery", is cracked, do ya just fill in the crack with fiberglass?