Mercedes vs VW diesel - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

93Ford · #1 07-10-2022, 06:15 PM

So i have a 85 vw 1.6 na diesel and let me tell you its so unbelievably slow it drives me crazy. So i was wondering which would be better to build for some speed. The vw diesels cant make the hp of the om606 but the vw cars are a lot lighter. Are there any light mercedes cars that a om606 can be swapped into.

Zulfiqar · #2 07-11-2022, 04:17 PM

You can rework that engine, pump and nozzles to make it a GTD, they become pretty peppy after that.

t walgamuth · #3 07-12-2022, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 93Ford

So i have a 85 vw 1.6 na diesel and let me tell you its so unbelievably slow it drives me crazy. So i was wondering which would be better to build for some speed. The vw diesels cant make the hp of the om606 but the vw cars are a lot lighter. Are there any light mercedes cars that a om606 can be swapped into.

I think swapping in a mercedes motor is not going to work for you. The engine in a vw is transverse. the mb is inline.

I suggest finding a newer vw motor with more power or adding a supercharger or turbo charger in it.

Better yet just buy a car with what you want and sell your vw. It should be very marketable if in good condition.

Have you had yours tuned up...maybe that would surprise you. I seem to remember back in the day they were considered very quick for a diesel.

compu_85 · #4 07-12-2022, 10:28 AM

You mean the 50hp, NA diesel is slow?!?

If you want to go fast, find the AHU or 1Z TDI from a B4 Passat or A3 Jetta. Or even something newer if you want to adapt the motor mounts.

I'd recommend against adding a turbo to the NA 1.6. It doesn't have piston oil coolers and I think doesn't have sodium filled exhaust valves. You can run a lill boost on it, but anything above 10 and I'd be worried about melting things down.

-J

93Ford · #5 07-12-2022, 11:59 AM

I wasnt thinking of swapping a mercedes motor into the vw i was wondering weather or not i should sell the vw and buy a mercedes. Id rather not try and do an engine swap in this old vw as parts are getting to hard to find for it. I was looking at MK4 jettas that already have the ALH engine or an early 300D With the NA 606 that i can put a turbo motor in.

93Ford · #6 07-12-2022, 12:06 PM

It seems the ALH can really only get to about 200-225WHP and still be reliable. The om606 however can handle 400-500 with just fuel and air even though its in a 1k lb hevier car i imagine itll still be faster and more reliable, im not 100% on that though. What i really like about the mercedes is it has the mechanical inline injection pump while the vw is electronic. The vw can be converted to mechanical but not much if anything is gained

Texasgeezer · #7 07-12-2022, 03:57 PM

My view is that we're in a time period comparable to the early days of automobiles and the switch from horses, steam, electric to petroleum fueled autos.

It seems that battery powered autos are being forced on us even with almost a complete lack of range and fast refueling. They also want us to significantly reduce our driving during this switchover period to allow more of us to make the switch.

I think the best interim choice would be a hybrid. Virtually all of these would perform better than the VW diesel you've described. To me a hybrid is a much better choice than a battery powered auto at this time and they currently have a good resell value.

With the dwindling spare parts and high fuel cost I think an old Mercedes diesel would be one of the last cars I'd want to purchase today. Just the cost of cosmetic fixup is extremely high.

We owned a 1980 VW diesel for a while as a remote car to drive while doing consulting work. It was a good car for us due to it's low cost compared to a rental, good fuel mileage, minimal distance between hotel and client so performance was not a consideration.

My main reason for liking the older Mercedes diesel is for the driving comfort and quiet ride, plus I can work on them and not have much to worry about for most common failures.

If it completely failed on me or was totaled the money lost would not be much compared to the loss of the sentimental value of it's ownership. Sort of like it's an old good wife. No need to be peppy and beautiful, the memories are priceless. I think for a lot of us the cars we've owned probably bring better memories than a lot of the people we've associated with.

93Ford · #8 07-12-2022, 04:11 PM

The thing is i have a lot of waste oil that i use so its free fuel. Iv been using it in my 7.3idi for a while and have had no problems so im sticking with a diesel.

alabbasi · #9 07-12-2022, 05:53 PM

OM 606 has similar dimensions to an M103 so I expect that it will fit fine in a 190E.

BirthdayBenz · #10 07-13-2022, 02:48 PM

I owned a 2011 Sportwagen with a 6 speed a few years ago. That had the 2.0L common rail engine. CJAA might have been the engine code. With a tune I was making 190hp and around 300ftlbs of torque and getting 46mpg. It sure would be fun to swap that into an '85 VW.

BirthdayBenz · #11 07-13-2022, 03:10 PM

Also, let me rant on the OM606.

I'm of the opinion that the 606 engine far too expensive and the tech is getting old. Everybody knows what that is and wants to put it in every rear drive vehicle on the road from Toyotas to Fords, to Land Rovers, z-cars etc which increases demand. In used condition, with "allegedly 250k miles" they go for $2500 or more. Then if you want to make power you're buying a $2000 injection pump and probably a turbo.

Look into the OM648. You can buy a sub 200K mile, complete running and driving salvage car for less than an OM606 long block. Part the car and the OM648 is FREE!

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cf9M0-ygXix/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

I'd buy a salvage 2011 VW TDI if I were you and put it in the '85

t walgamuth · #12 07-13-2022, 05:53 PM

Good idea!

barry12345 · #13 07-14-2022, 11:49 AM

The 85 and 86 turbo diesel Jetta cars where the best Volkswagen ever built in my humble opinion. Provided they had the manual transmission.

If you have no rust in the 1985. I would try to find a good used turbo engine to drop in. Same series of engine.

We had no use for their natural aspired engines or their automatic transmissions. The 85 diesel has adjustable valves with shims. The 86 and up had hydralic lifters.

Simple cars with few parts and in general cheap to maintain. Reliability was excellent as well. If we did not have the rust problem in our area I would still have one around.

93Ford · #14 07-14-2022, 08:08 PM

Yea this 85 has very little surface rust and thats about it. Its overall in very good shape its just so slow and has no ac. Having ac is the main problem maybe if the mk4 jetta componets like the condensor, ac lines, and evap can be fitted into the mk2 then i might just keep it and swap a tdi in it and it be 1k lbs lighter.

compu_85 · #15 07-15-2022, 09:47 AM

You'd want to find an AC heater box to install inside the car. You can adapt the Mk4 variable displacement compressor to the Mk2 system with custom lines. Many have done this.

The Mk4 lines, condenser, and evaporator are totally differently shaped. If your car wasn't equipped with factory AC then there's not even a spot for the evaporator.

-J