Bring back my 2.5 190d
 

Hello to forum and thanks in advance for any help.I have owned many mbs over the years although none newer than 94. I have a 87 2.5t that way back in the 90 had a drip from between engine and trans...so I had a mechanic replace the seal...when he gave me the car back it did not move...i dont remember any tranny problems before...he was not a mb specialist...the good part it doesn't leak:D lol.anyway I put the car in storage in a warehouse for 15 -20yrs...This week I was getting ready to flush the fuel see if it run...it starts right up and runs good after 15yrs sitting.thought I would take a shot on this forum for a list of what to check in the vehicle before going the replace tyranny route...there is no movement in r or any drive position with engine running..my thought 15 yrs ago was he cracked the pump putting back together...not sure if that is easy to do on this model...anyone have a check list of things I can try?..jacking it up tonite to root around underneath.

Does it have fluid in the tranny?

I was so excited it ran forgot to check...but I will tonite...mechanic would have after repair...dextron ok for this ? And is any chance fluid wouldn't get into torqe converter even if shows ok on dipstick?

If the transmission fluid is fine but still does not move. Look to see if the shifter linkage is installed, it should be high up on the trans in the tunnel, so get a good light to check

Typically there are 2 connections, one to the shifter are and a second to the transmission linkage. Possible was not reconnected properly.

So checked fluid after letting run a bit nothing showing on stick ..but added some fluid about a quart...let it run again and now shows up to bump on stick.i have one of those cameras with flex head so I tuck it in nr shift linkage which is on driver side of tranny...the play does not seem excessive.i go in car and with camera I see the shaft on side of tranny moving with the gear selector.it does seem too easy to shift like there usual is some resistance in other mb I had...but maybe they had worn linkages.
I am curious where the other linkage is you referenced...?thanks for your help !

Not the best image, but should help you visualize the components. The blue squares denote the shifter bushings, so each of these is a linkage point. The goal was to see and ensure that the shifter handle is connected and imparting movement on the shifter stub in the side of the trans.

Yup I used camera to verify linkage is moving lever on side of tranny...so that's out...suppose you could disconnect the linkage to move it by hand but seems something would be felt when running the positions.the only other cable I saw was the bowden cable...is there any electronics that would stop engagement?.wondering on next step...could test line pressure but it's tight in tunnel already wondering how hard it is to get to the top bellhousing bolts to remove tranny

The only other test I can think of at the moment is to test the transmission pump. I think if you were to remove one of the trans cooler lines, attach to a hose or place a large container under the disconnected line, run the engine and see if fluid is being pumped thru. That will confirm your pump.

You can also using a hose, sealed on the trans dipstick, to blow air into the trans to confirm no pressure build up, or rather that the vent is clear.

Regarding removal of the trans. Disconnecting to trans mount (rear) and utilizing it's weight, will help tilt both trans and engine down towards the rear. Using socket extensions, in this position with the assembly hanging onto engine only, should give you better access to the upper bellhousing bolts.

Thanks 87td. I like that idea but wouldn't fluid leak out from disconected line even if pump wasn't working what would I be looking for the fluid blasting out? What psi is the cooler line?

You will get a little fluid dribbling out, primarily from the cooler side, cap that off. From the trans side, fluid should not come out until the pump pushes it, then it will gush out, not sure at what PSI, but not extreme. Just a quick test to see if the pump is working or not.

Not knowing what your mechanic did 20 years ago, but to replace the seal and then not have the trans work afterwards, means an error was made. Either way the mechanic had to go thru the front cover and pump assembly to replace the cover seal, so possible something was missed on reassembly. The trans will likely have to come out to assess.

Good luck

Thanks again td...I was wondering about that...now my complaint was drip between engine bellhousing..it could have been r crak seal or tranny front seal...makes me feel old to say I don't remember which he said it was back in the 90s lol..so I agree something was messed up...if we assume it was the tranny seal replaced..are you saying the pump must be removed to access this seal?...also wondering if there was a way to reusable wrong where torque converter..is not connected to internals of the tranny

Weird that it won’t move. Since you checked the linkage, I’m going to still guess low fluid. I had a 300d once that would leak from someplace and when atf got low enough it would be sluggish or unable to move.

I’d want to drop the pan and see anyway.

Then rebaseline all fluids. Oil, ATF, psf and filter, diff oil, antifreeze. Check air filter. New battery. New tires. Possibly new brake hoses. New belt. I’d change all again early after sitting in case junk was flushed out or loosened up.

Good luck!

Snafu,
Regarding the front lip seal on the input shaft, removal of the front cover and pump in not totally required, but is the recommended approach. The old seal can be pried out, and a new seal tapped in around the perimeter. Generally, though a press would be a better way of seating the seal evenly and with the input shaft in way, that would be hard to do. Removing the unit complete makes the job easier, and of course the cover seal should have been replaced as well in the process, both are leak points.

In your case, given the time the car has sat, the lip seal is most likely permanently deformed out of round at this point and should be changed.

I personally can't see how the torque converter cannot be attached to the trans, it sits on a splined shaft, that's the connection between it and the trans thru the input shaft. Now on the other hand, it is possible that the TC was left unbolted from the engine flywheel/flexplate effectively leaving the engine disconnected from the trans. I would suspect some scraping noises, but who knows.

You could use a long handled wrench, to turn the engine crank bolt by hand while looking thru the access hole at the bottom of the bellhousing, and see if both the faceplate and TC move together, or at least see the mating bolts themselves to confirm.

Thank you to all who reply..what a helpful forum..so just now I disconect coller lines at radiator and start up vehicle is jacked up in front but no stepper than driving up hill... very unimpressive basically nothing comes out of coller lines...I post picture but made video also..don't think forum allows...so no flow in park or drive postions

So I have pic but can't post ..anyway shows pan with cooler hose and nothing coming out...the fluids supposed to circulate even in park for cooling no?..fluid on stick comes up to bump mark

Simple method to resize images taken on a smartphone is text them to yourself, then save image.
Then upload the resized image easy.:D

Thanks to 87td and jhz...so I have established 1)there is no pumping of fluid at least to the cooler hoses and 2)by lying under the car and looking thru the slots in the bellhousing..the torque converter rotates and the flywheel rotates with the engine running....wondering again if it is possible to install the torque converter in the tranny ,bolt everything up and either damage the torque converter or pump ......or install the torque converter in such a way that it never connects to the pump ?

No worries. Can't see how the torque converter can be installed incorrectly. It has bolt tangs only on the flywheel side. The mating to the trans is thru the input shaft. I guess it is possible to have installed the TC to the engine and the trans without the input shaft, but highly unlikely. Again, without knowing what the mechanic did, anything is possible. Won't be able to tell without pulling it.

Are you getting any engagement at all? Is your driveline free, rear wheels move in neutral?

A few things come to mind:

1) Torque converter drain back. I have a Chrysler 47RE in a dodge Cummins truck that would not move until the AT pumped a while in neutral, due to TC drainback. It is possible that you have this.

2) Leaks from someplace. I used to have a w124 that had a slow ATF leak. The car mostly sat and after a while it barely would move when started. After some more slow leak it wouldn’t move at all.

3) Air bubble. Once when servicing an MB transmission I didn’t read the manual close enough. The FSM said to put a fraction of the ATF in, then start the car to let it pump. I just poured and got an overflow from the dipstick. All was fine in the end for me, but imagine if too much was put in too fast, and air was stuck in there and couldn’t burp out.


You really need to know about the fluid in there. This is one of the cleanest and easiest transmissions to service.

At minimum I’d turn the engine by hand, find the TC drain plug, and verify that there is fluid in there. If you open the plug and fluid drains out, congrats. Put fresh fluid back in and move on. If nothing comes out, I’d certainly drain and drop the pan (which you’ll want to do at some point regardless).

I’m concerned that you had no atf on the stick, you added some and saw a bit on the stick, but truly don’t know how much is actually in there. I’d start with that. Cheap Walmart D/M atf is fine for that.

So no flow to cooler...but torque converter and flywheel are turning while motor runs...hmmm

I was wondering if there was some exotic procedure to refill the tranny that mechanic did not do.there wouldnt be any reason he had to drain tranny to replace seal but he minght have emtied tc...do you have to manually dill them first before installing the tranny?

Well I will have a look in tc ..what size ..is it a hex head ?

The fluid flow on an automatic is from the pan> to the TC> out the TC drain > to the trans cooler/bypass > back to the pan.

The proper way to fill after a complete drain (pan and TC) is to fill the pan, then run the engine for 30 sec, check level, add more fluid, run engine again for another 30 sec, check level, add fluid, then run for several minutes to get the trans up to operating temp, check the fluid level (at max hot line) and add as needed to the upper range. Then you are done. When you are starting from a known full trans, you can also measure the amount of fluid drained and have a starting known quantity for how much to put back in.

TC drain could be a hex bolt or an allen, it varied across models. Nothing exotic tho.

If you can, in your current state (reconnect cooler line), run the engine until it is fully at temp, then check the trans fluid level and see if it has increased to the max hot indicator on the dipstick. If it is at temp and nothing is flowing from the trans cooler lines, your problem is internal to the trans. Potentially, you may have a stuck valve in the valve body, and the temp may free that up, getting things flowing again. If not, then the trans will have to come out for servicing IMO.

Unfortunately that doesn’t tell us anything.

If you put a socket on the crank and turn the engine by hand, you’ll see the TC turn. Same for the flywheel.

I’d get a 27mm socket, turn the engine so the TC drain plug is visible, open it with a 5mm Allen, and see if there’s any fluid.

Nothing exotic to fill, but some will “back up” and spill out the dipstick tube.

When I serviced my 1991 300d, I didn’t read closely that the FSM said to add 4 QTs, then start the car, and add the rest. I filled the full amount in, started the car, and went on my way.

When I serviced my 1991 350sd, I did the same thing. It spilled out the dipstick tube. That’s when I noted the instruction in the FSM.

I think you’re low enough that it’s an issue.

So I rotated the torque converter and opened the drain plug...I would describe what came out as a study dribble of fluid..I was not a huge flow like the tc was real full.so where were at 1) no flow thru coolant lines to radiator with engine running2)some fluid in torque converter 3)tranny fluid level up to bump in dipstick with engine running..back when this occurred my first thought was pump was destroyed by improper installation...but no one seems to indicate that this can happen easily like in a th350 where if the converter is not rotated to the "click where the stepped shaft..the transmission can be bolted up and the torque converter cracks the pump housing....I am concerned that when I reinstall the replacement transmission which seems to be where this is going I will destroy it like the mechanic destroyed this transmission which worked until the seal replacement...

How much came from the TC? Should be a few quarts.

Since you’ve opened that up you ought to open the drain plug, drain the fluid, check it out, then drop the pan. Check the filter. Go from there.

It does sound like it isn’t pumping. But I’m not convinced you actually have a full transmission without an or bubble in it someplace.

Sounds a lot like torque converter drainback on the old Chrysler 47RE transmissions.

Are you sure neither of the hard lines that route on the exterior are pinched?

Which end did you disconnect the cooler lines? They could be collapsed in their own right.