Larry,

But you don't want it that way. If that were the case, you wouldn't have that byline. You want to tell the world, with every post, that changing oil every 3kmiles is the only way to fly.

And that is just flat wrong. It flies in the face of oil technology and real world experience. It's dogma, nothing more.

I think you understand this issue a lot more than you lead on. I saw that you didn't pounce on me for my MIF comments (as the others did), because you lived that one with your runaway and subsequent meltdown. You knew what I meant, but you chose not to comment then.

I suspect you know your oil comments are dated and obsolete, but you can't let go of them because you have somehow wrapped your identity around them.

You can do it, just drive one of those cars 5kmiles before you change oil. I know it will be difficult when you see 3kmiles turn on the clock, but it won't blow up, and everything will be ok.

Joe

I totally understand your MIF. My meltdown was different because the IP HAD to be changed. You don't HAVE to change oil often. According to you, you don't have to change it EVER. Doing repairs is different because you have no choice.

I knew that you wouldn't be able to pass up a chance to rub that one in again. Go ahead though. If belittling others makes you feel better at their expense then go for it. I can just imagine what you were like when you were in Junior High School. I'm all for making others feel better even if it is at my expense.

As far as my "By line" as you call it. No one has a problem with you having your own opposing by line. How about "Ignore your oil for 10,000 miles?"

Have a great day,

Larry,
I have to disagree on the motor home issue, because I think the drive train is capable of handling the load. Farm tractors and boats are, however, always under load. I also think that 3000 miles is too frequent, and I would go with 5000 miles, but I also value your judgment.

GI Joe or 240JoE,
I think you have your head up your know what. You had your oil tested at only 2324 miles. You need to go to 15k and see what the TBN is. Forget about ash. Yes, it's your engine. Though I disagree with Larry on mileage, he is much
closer to reality than you.

__________________
Auto Zentral Ltd.

Autozone,

It was not my oil sample. It was one I found on bob the oil guy's site. And previously, I clearly stated I don't do oil samples.

The 3kmile oil change has been dead for years. Even Mercedes spec'ed 5kmiles and that was with the oil available in the early 1980's.

Spend some time reading about the oil spec changes that have occured over the last 20 years. They are very impressive. Soot used to be the limiter for our cars as they tend to load up the oil with soot before the other critical oil parameters fail. Since EGR is back with a vengence on diesels, soot is now an issue again for new diesel engines. The oil guys therefore created oils that can handle the soot load...up to 6 and 7.5 %.

With modern diesel synthetic oil, 10kmiles is a no brainer. 15k to 20k is fine if a few factors are verified.

And this isn't news. The Diesel Doctor, an MB expert for years on mbz.org, has been a strong advocate of the 10kmile synthetic interval for years. And that guy knows some stuff.

If my head is up my what know what, maybe you should stick yours there. It might enlighten you.

Joe

This won't settle anything but I would like to give my $.00 worth.
Lets take 2 examples of a very, very routine situtation.

I drive my 300D an average of 300 miles/month.
I average 2 starts/day or 60 starts/month.
That comes out to 5 miles/start.

Someone else drives 3000 miles/month.
They also average 2 starts/day.
That comes out to 50 miles/start.

These are cold starts.

They deside to run their oil for 15,000 miles between changes.
Simple math tell us that would be 300 cold starts.

Using the same number of starts, I would change my oil every 1,500 miles (300 X 5).

I change my oil every 1,000 to 1,500 miles using 15W-40 M1. If you still think I am crazy, so be it.

I'm with Larry, "Change oil HOT and change oil OFTEN"

__________________
84 500 SEL (307,xxx miles)

I don't see how a reduction in cold start lubricating if corrected by changing the oil? If the TBN package is still there then changing the oil won't make a difference.

How about discussing CHECKING the oil level?
How many people drive around day after day without knowing how much oil is in their engine?

When was the last time you checked your oil level?
LMAO

Danny

__________________
1984 300SD Turbo Diesel 150,000 miles

OBK member #23

(\__/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination

Danny,
I do it because from past experience I have found that the cold start is the hardest time for an engine. Condensation builds up, soot builds up, everything wears more due to the constant temperture changes. Gunk builds up inside the engine, as well as carbon build up. Changing the oil often doesn't stop these things from happening, it just helps keep it from getting out of hand. I use M1 because it helps keep things clean, the engine starts easer, the turbo spools up quicker, I get better MPG, etc.
Would you rather have a car with 20,000 miles that never got out of the city, most trips were less then 2 miles, or would you rather have one with 100,000 miles that was driven by a salesman and 90% of the miles were on the interstate? Both had the oil changed at 5,000 miles.

I have been working on cars for about 50 years. During that time I have learned that changing the oil is the most important thing you can do for the car. How often it is needed changes with each car. By the way, I change the oil in my 500SEL about every 3000 miles. It is our road car with most trips being 200+miles with very few short trips. This comes out to about 1 time/year or so.
And Joe, there is no hope for you. When you get ready to sell one of your cars, DON'T CALL ME. I wouldn't have one of them.

__________________
84 500 SEL (307,xxx miles)

deltajetfixer,

Are you saying quantity is more important than quality? There's a lot of people with thousands of posts on this board that I wouldn't trust to open my hood.

And Larry continues with that offensive byline with every post. So don't act as if he's open minded about it, because he isn't.

Sorry, facts are facts. Live with it. Please keep me on ignore. My posts would be lost on you anyway.

Joe

I am INDEED very open minded about it! I have REPEATEDLY explained that everyone, including yourself, should change oil at the frequency of your choice. I too will change at the frequency of my choice. That makes everyone happy.

Again, do you NOT want to be happy?

What YOU need to face up to Mr. 240Joe, is the fact that YOU are unable to cope with the fact that the entire world does not agree with YOU. I am one of the folks in the world who disagree with you on this one particular issue. You cannot come to grips with the fact that everyone in the world does not agree with you. I repeatedly tell you that it is TOTALLY your choice as to your OCI, but that's not good enough. You want world domination with your own opinion.

By requesting that I not post my own opinion you are displaying your desire to suppress information with which you disagree. This was done in the 1930's in Germany. They burned LOTS and LOTS of books because they expressed opinions with which the Fuerer did not agree. Is that what you wish to do, do away with literature because you don't agree with it?

I don't know how old you are, but if you are past the age of six, I would really expect that you would have figured out by now that there are always others on the planet Earth who will not agree with you. Most of the rest of the world have figured this out by the time of their adolescent years. I would also expect that you would learn that others have the right to their own opinions.

Have a great day,

...ttt

Interesting thread. I broke my 617.950 in on 15w40 Shell Rotella T and changed the oil the first time at 5000 miles. Since I drive the car on the freeway 108 miles daily (round trip) to work, I found it very difficult to keep up with a 3000 or 5000 mile oil change.

I ran the second oil change a full 10,000 miles and when I removed the oil filter, the lettering in the bottom of the oil filter housing was still visible. There was nothing that needed to be cleaned out. The housing drained away clean.

I had been accustomed to burning a quart of oil every 1,000 miles on this engine and I originally attributed this to the open 'tube' breather in the top of the stock camshaft cover. However, immediately after the oil change at 15,000 miles, things got interesting.

Overnight this engine just stopped buring oil. It went from a quart every 1,000 miles (with no visible smoke) to burning 1 quart in a full 10,000 miles.

The oil looked pretty nasty this time around, but again, the filter housing drained away clean, right down to the lettering on the floor.

In contrast, I have changed oil in OM 617's that had a 1/4" of caked soot on the floor of the housing.

I personally think that oil should be changed in a 617 every 5,000 miles. However, I have been unable to keep up with the service intervals and would not consider letting the local Auto Oil Changers mangle my brand new sump and drain plug.

On the other hand, a good friend of mine works for Burrtec Solid Waste in San Bernardino Ca. on their heavy equipment. He also works on over the road trucks. One company has been running the old mechanically injected Cummins 400 6 cylinder Turbos a full 10,000 miles between changes on Rotella T with very good oil analysis reports in between.

Any thoughts on this???...Bert

I agree with hot and often. With today's high oil quality often is every ten thousand.

Get with the times.

3000 mile oil changes were for the fifties.

Even new car manuals state every 6000 with dino oil.

If we all did this just think of the oil that would be saved every year.

Engines outlast most car bodies. Just my opinion!

Steve

Well guys, as an experiment (along with some laziness) I just put 10K miles on the oil (Mobil 1 5W40) in my 617 turbo (I normally go a maximum of 5-7K highway miles). These 10K were all highway miles, accumulated over about two months. When I finally changed it a couple of weeks ago, I sent the oil off for analysis. I'm still waiting for the results. At the risk of introducing some actual facts into this discussion, I will post the results when I get them.

We'll see what the analysis results say, but I don't expect to significantly extend my oil change interval (beyond about 7K). I still don't think I would be comfortable with 10K oil changes in a diesel, and I certainly wouldn't go much over 5K if I was doing any significant city driving. I just consider it cheap insurance. Hopefully, I will have the analysis results soon.

I did the same thing Craig. I was REALLY apprehensive about the 10,000 mile oil change interval (or longer). But I gave it a try and had an oil analysis done. My synthetic oil at 10,000 miles showed better oil analysis results than dino oil at 5000 miles. I'm convinced that 10,000 mile oil changes are fine on the 210 chassis. I'm still running dino oil in my 240D and have changed it every 5000 miles as the book recommends and will continue to do that.

Len
'99 E300TD 89,000 miles
'83 240D 345,000 miles original owner

What was your % of soot after 10K?