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  #1  
Old 07-31-2002, 10:39 AM
KylePavao
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Oil...

Went donw to Wal Mart (ugh..bad place...stuff is cheap though) and saw some what seemed to be good oil on sale. Valvoline synthetic blend, normally quite expensive on sale in 5 quart containers. It is rated for many spark fired engines, but also had a CJ rating. Would this be suitable to use in my 240D? If not, will it hurt it the engine serverely before the next 3000 mile oil change or should I change it immediately?

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  #2  
Old 07-31-2002, 11:17 AM
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cj rating must be the latest rating. i thought unlil now ch4 was the latest. you did not post the 'weight' of the cj you used. trust it was 15w-40. whether you should change as soon as possible. if the viscosity of the new oil is indeed as recommended, my thought would be to let it run its course or maybe change a little early. if the viscosity is on the less viscous side, i would change now.

Last edited by janko; 07-31-2002 at 11:27 AM.
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  #3  
Old 07-31-2002, 11:36 AM
KylePavao
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10-W40...

It was my father that purchased this stuff. Thought it was a great deal when he was on one of his local Wal Mart Runs. Its actually a CF rated oil. Prolly crap. Ole pop, always looking for a bargain. Ill have to change the oil while he is gone so he doesn't get offended that I threw out his bargain.
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  #4  
Old 07-31-2002, 11:16 PM
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Kyle,

Valvoline does not make "crap". The oil you have in your car is perfectly OK and is better than any "dino" oil. As long as it has a "C" (for compression ignition I.E.Diesel) rating, is it suitable for your MB.

I prefer Mobil I and Castrol Syntec for my MBs because they have 15W50 and 5W50 viscosity respectively. But I use the Valvoline 10W40 synthetic in my Diesel tractor.

P E H
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  #5  
Old 07-31-2002, 11:45 PM
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My old man always told me that synthetic was a waste of money and to not use it.

Is it really worth the extra money or not?
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  #6  
Old 07-31-2002, 11:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 190D22
My old man always told me that synthetic was a waste of money and to not use it.

Is it really worth the extra money or not?
That's a debate that will go on forever! I'm not convinced either way. There are those who get very passionate about synthetics and will argue in their defense till they are blue in the face. And then there are those equally passionate on the other side. Both sides will quote "facts" and reports and studies. I have to just go out and start up my dad's old '67 ford pickup with 467,000 miles on it with the origonal engine for my answer. All he ever used was good old Penzoil every 3,000 to 4,000 miles since the thing was new. It's tired and don't run real smooth, but it'll still smoke the tires off from a standing start, and will out run a lot of the newer trucks out there.
OK. I stirred the pot for you all. have at it!
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  #7  
Old 08-01-2002, 01:20 AM
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Synthetic lubricants are vastly better by any measure of lubricating qualities. No other discussion there.

The problem is that there is probably no pure synthetic lubricant on the market, and there is quite a bit of discussion about what "full synthetic" means (as in 100% beef hot dogs that contain everything but beef......).

You won't go wrong with a synthetic, in fact you won't go wrong with any C rated oil -- the kicker is that the only oils with C ratings at the local auto parts store are usually the synthetics! The usual autozone stuff is for spark ignition only.

If you change the oil every 3000 miles you can use any detergent oil and not worry too much. If you want to extend service intervals or want extreme longevity, synthetics are a better choice. May be a moot point -- my work van is a 1992 Chevy V6, 294,000 miles on whatever Speedy Oiler uses, changed every 3000 miles since new, never had engine work (third tranny at the moment). Uses at most a quart in 3000 miles (since I filled it up with synthetic last summer), and now that I put premium in it, runs pretty good.

I personally have used Mobil 1 for a long time, and have never worn an engine out -- all my cars die from rust of collision damage.

The oil debate will probably rage as long as there are more than two suppliers, just like the endless debate over the relative qualities of Chevy vs MB engines, but on a scientific basis, synthetic oils are vastly better. They cost more (pure synthetic would be about $6 a quart or more), and there are lots of "snake oil" formulations out there, including one brand name labeled "full synthetic" that appears to have a mineral oil base fluid, and Amsoil comes to mind, good stuff but three times what it should cost.

It all boils down, I think, to this: if you use synthetics, get your oil tested for wear metals and soot, and run it till the soot gets too high -- change oil filter every 5000 miles or so. If you use dino oil, change it every 3000, and you will be fine. Use the viscosity range suggested by MB and make SURE it is CD rated or better, CH for late model diesels.

Peter
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  #8  
Old 08-01-2002, 03:33 PM
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I agree completely. I don't have a debate with the facts of better lubricating qualities, ect of synthetics. I've read enough independant studies to back up that fact.
Where I loose interest is the cost factor vs what your gaining. Suppose you keep a car an average of 100,000 miles. If you use standard oil at, say, $1.75 qt, change every 5000 miles, use 6 qts each time, then you've spent $350.00 on oil. Ok. Now calculate the same miles driven with synthetic. Change, say, every 5000 miles. 6 qts at $5.00/qt. That works out to $600.00. Almost double the cost. (I did the same calculations on my dads old truck with 467,000 miles on it, and it looks even worse.) And I'm not sure that even with synthetic you should go that far between oil changes, but that's a thread that's already been persued a few weeks ago. For the average length of time a person owns a car, I think the only person you'll help with synthetics is the next several owners, and I suppose there's something to that. Now there may be a case for buying an older car, such as many of us have, and using synthetics to get even more life out of our engines. Hmmmm....
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'67 230
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  #9  
Old 08-01-2002, 04:18 PM
LarryBible
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I can't imagine anyone refuting the fact that synthetic is superior. I think where the question lies is the price delta.

The question becomes; is it worth three times the price.

There are MANY oils that have a diesel (CX) rating. The universal grade oils, however, are especially formulated for diesel use, with additional additives for soot dispersal, etc.

CH4 is no longer the latest and most stringent rating for diesel lubricating oils. The CI4 specification is now the latest for the universal grades. I don't know how this is later than CJ, but it has been discussed in the over the road diesel community for a few months.

As P.E. said, Valvoline does not make crap, it's great stuff, but the Universal grades are especially designed for diesels.

My $0.02,
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  #10  
Old 08-01-2002, 05:01 PM
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OK ... people are listening to synthetic technical discussions now. Next major debatable topic will likely be extended drain intervals with synthetics ... this url is to U of SW Louisiana ... it is quite old and is very applicable ...

http://www.leeric.lsu.edu/bgbb/7/ecep/diesel/a/a.htm

In it you will see a lesson guide on synthetics that addresses all the issues ... while it does mention Amsoil cause they likely had some money in it, the points are the same.

3000 miles, 5000 miles, etc ... all the equivalent of our fathers' "old wives tales." In a few years, with enough data, we will know - current on board systems are using data developed to make the determination to change based on distance, speed, temperature, etc ... this info is slammed against a profile and a light comes on. Not rocket science.

I can see the future advertising:

"Our oil change light comes on sooner than other manufacturers' products because we know your father told you to change your oil more often than needed."
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  #11  
Old 08-01-2002, 07:44 PM
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I only use synthetic oil in the winter here in PEI where sometimes it can get down to to -20 C.

Nothing is better than going out and listening to your diesel crank over like it was summertime temperatures - after it has been sitting outside all day at work in -20 c temps.

I would run it all year - but I find it a little hard to pay big $$$ when dino oil will do during the rest of the year.

Aivars
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  #12  
Old 08-01-2002, 07:57 PM
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If you test the oil, it is perfectly safe to run synthetics until you exceed the maximun soot level. The "additives" in synthetic oils won't get used up like they do in the mineral oils. The result is that synthetics become cheaper due to greatly extended service intervals. This is more true on gasoline engines, where soot isn't a problem at less than 50,000 miles or so without changing the oil.

Dino oil will degrade long befor that -- the 3000 mile benchmark is from many years of oil testing, and it appears that dino oils begin to loose their additives (and hence their lubricating properties) at about 3000 miles.

Synthetics will definitely extend the service life of an engine (with proper maintenance!) far beyond the lifetime with dino oil, frequent changes not withstanding. However, it doesn't pay unless you use extended service intervals. I'm going to get some oil test kits next time I change oil and see what it going on -- at 218,000 and 174,000 miles!

Peter
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  #13  
Old 08-02-2002, 10:41 PM
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Someone on this board, I think it's Larry Bible, contends that it doesn't much matter as long as you change it cold, and change it infrequently.
Or is that hot and often?
Anyway, I go the synthetic route.
You want a real fun oil debate, you should go to the Triumph motorcycle discussion board and debate between motorcycle specific Mobil 1 and the Mobil 1 for cars. M/c specific synthetics make automobile synthetics look cheap! Try upwards of $9.00 to $15.00 per quart. There's some real marketing genius behind those sales.
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  #14  
Old 08-03-2002, 10:22 AM
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I was amused to see that the Mobil1 Motorcycle oil is rated for diesels. Don't think I ever saw a Harley diesel.
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  #15  
Old 08-03-2002, 11:41 AM
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Motorcycle engines run the oil VERY hot compared to automobile engines, and often use the same oil for the tranny. They also tend to run very high rpm compared to auto engines, both of which make oil requirements very different.

I'd not be surprised that "special" oil was needed. However, it is very likely a case like BMW bikes -- lots of "custom" (model specific), nonstandard parts made only for that application ($35 copper core spark plugs, $50 air filters just slightly off-size from an automotive one, $40 oil filters just smaller than auto ones, etc). Makes the manufacturer tons of money, as if the owner didn't pay enough already!

Peter

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1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!
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