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  #1  
Old 08-01-2002, 07:01 PM
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injection timing question

My 83 300D seems to generate more black/grey smoke at idle than my 240D. You really notice it with the A/C on. I thought I would check the injection timing this afternoon. I really had no other symptons other than the smoke...fuel economy is about 28.5 (mostly highway miles), starts good when cold, the car has great power, and it's not using much oil. I had previously adjusted the valves and did a rough check of the chain stretch and it looked ok.

I used the Richard Easley method and found the start of delivery at 17 degrees when it should be 24. I loosened the pump and adjusted it towards the engine and now have about 23 degrees. Spec is 24.

The smoke seems a bit less but I can't tell how much yet.

My question is what are the symptoms of having the injection timing too late (like I had) or too early? It will take me awhile to see if fuel ecomony, performance, or smoke changes much.

thanks
Joe
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  #2  
Old 08-01-2002, 09:21 PM
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Sort of engine specific, but here are the hints:

Smoke and excessive knock at low speed, injection timing too fast

Smoke at high speed, very quiet engine at idle, injection timing late.

White smoke at start up turning black at all speed and loads is low compression.

The MB diesels are fairly tolerant of out of spec injection timing -- it shows up as excessive smoke, hard starting, and lack of power, but too fast can give excess smoke at high speed, too, so the best thing to do is check and set it properly.

Now that you've set it, I'll tell you that you probably should have checked the timing chain stretch instead -- if the chains is getting worn out, your injection timing will be late, and if you need to replace the chaine, you will now be fast -- if you'd replaced the chain without setting the timing, it would be very close to correct -- and you now still have late valve timing, too!

Peter
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  #3  
Old 08-01-2002, 09:44 PM
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Peter

I did do a rough check of chain stretch when I adjusted the values, and it looked ok. The reason I went right to the pump timing is that I could see where the previous owner (or his mechanic) had adjusted it recently. I could see marks on the nuts holding the IP.

I did notice that the rear bolt holding the IP is missing. Do you know what size it is?

I took a short spin in the car a few minutes ago, and noticed how much faster the car starts. It used to have to turn over a few times before it would fire, but now it starts right away.

I probably need to get that rear bolt in the IP or maybe it could move.

thanks
Joe
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  #4  
Old 08-01-2002, 10:19 PM
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Joe:

I always try to help people avoid extra work, it stinks to have to repeat o job because you didn't know to do something else first!

As for the blot, I have no idea, maybe some one else can help with the size. Probably in there for a reason, though!

My Volvo is still somewhat reluctant to start hot and is still making too much smoke -- I will set the timing to the other mark when I get a chance, hope to reduce the smoke and low power some more. Milage is off, too -- only about 24 instead of the usual 29, but that was without AC.

Peter
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1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!
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  #5  
Old 08-01-2002, 10:27 PM
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Joe, I think Peter is right (again)... I hate to sound skeptical... but how does one do a "rough" check of the timing chain stretch ? That is a very critical procedure and you may be discounting the stretch when you needed to take it into account setting the timing... Greg
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  #6  
Old 08-01-2002, 11:02 PM
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I would doubt that the chain is stretched with 135kmiles and a good record of oil changes. I will do the dial indicator method the next time I do a valve adjust, just to make sure.

I'm wondering now if the missing bolt in the rear of the IP has something to do with this. The car used to start faster when I first got it six months ago, and I don't remember this much smoke. I did play a lot with the IP pipes when I first got the car because of leaks. Maybe the IP was loose and my work rotated it. I don't remember checking the three bolts in the front of the IP for tightness.

I need to somehow find out what size bolt is used in the back mount.

thanks for the input.

Joe
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  #7  
Old 08-01-2002, 11:54 PM
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I used the Richard Easley method

At the sake of sounding stupid, what is the Richard Easley method of timing?
I thought the only way was the start of delivery method.
I do not have an additional Injector line or the other adapters mentioned onthe CD but based on the post above I am off in my timing.
I have excessive knock and smoke on the low end. At about 1500 rpms (guessing) the motor definately smoothes out. Can a person rotate the IP a little at a time until it seems the best or are we looking of rtrouble by the ole "how does it sound" method of tuning?
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  #8  
Old 08-02-2002, 12:11 AM
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Missing bolt in Injector Pump

240D Joe,

I drove my 240/300D for three years before I found that my rear bolt was missing. Never did loosen the pump. It's very difficult to get the bolt in place because of the lack of room between the pump and the oil filter housing. Here's how I managed to get mine started because you can't get a wrench oin it and hold it in place at the hole at the same time.

I drilled a hole down the center of the bolt and then threaded the bolt onto a piece of wire, bent the wire 90 degerees and cut it so it didn't overlap the edges of the bolt head. I then fed the wire through the IP mounting hole and pulled the bolt into alignment with the hole. Now I could hold it in place while getting a wrench on it.

Hope this works, as the alternative is removing the oil filter housingl

Bne
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  #9  
Old 08-02-2002, 06:22 AM
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fisherman

If you do a google search on "easley start of delivery mercedes", I believe you will find it. It's a simplified method to do the timing, and I found it works pretty well.

You don't need a drip tube, just remove number one line and watch fuel well up in the number one pipe on the IP as you rotate the crankshaft.

I was afraid it would not be very accurate, but I tried it 4 or 5 times and got the same reading, plus or minus 1 or 2 degrees.

It's so easy to do, I wouldn't try tuning the IP timing by ear.

Joe
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  #10  
Old 08-02-2002, 02:08 PM
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Thanks Joe

I did some searching and found the article. Very interesting..
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  #11  
Old 08-02-2002, 06:09 PM
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Can you give us the URL of the Easley timing method? I have used the drip tube method but I would like a timing method that doesn't require taking the injection pump apart.

P E H
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  #12  
Old 08-02-2002, 07:08 PM
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A couple of months ago my "79" 240D was smoking quite a lot on start up and a MB tech friend said "just rotate the IP a taste toward the engine" (maybe one sixteenth of an inch) WA LA ! no more smoke, even runs a tad coolerI. was cautioned that if you do not see any difference turn it back where it was. I tried it on the daughter's car to cure a hard starting when hot problem and saw no difference so I set it back. OK I know, I will have to learn to check the timing proper
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  #13  
Old 08-02-2002, 10:16 PM
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P.E. Haige - here is the URL

This is hte URL off of the MBZ site and apparently (though I have not done it) you can sign up for tips from this guy on his newsletter.
Anyway it says it is for a 617 engine but it seems to be fairly universal.
I'm going try it and I'll let you know if the car blows up... BTW-Mine is a 75 240d on the 115.

http://business.baylor.edu/Richard_Easley/autofaqs/iptiming.htm

BTW - Your browser may come up wiht an error message about a runtime error. No idea what that is all about but just click NO when prompted to debug. A guy could spend all day debugging MS software...
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  #14  
Old 08-04-2002, 12:28 AM
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Fisherman,

Thanks for the IP timing URL. I had it once before but lost it when my system crashed.

P E H
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