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  #1  
Old 08-04-2002, 01:19 PM
debbiemarlow
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Desperately Seeking SERIOUS Technical Help

It's me still in Memphis but, this time I have serious electrical problems. Remember my brake line blew out when I arrived; now I have a new master cylinder and two new front brake lines.

Now I cannot start the car, not even jump it off. Glow plugs light up but motor will not turn over.
Discovery brought some surprises... a brown wire exiting or entering voltage regulator was "split" exposing the wire from the regulator until, at least, it disappears in to a covered bundle. There is the 3 wire thing attached to the alternator ( we attached, thinking that was all we needed to do before I left home). There is also a wire (Sam, mechanic friend, says should go to battery to charge it) that's I guess hass been cut off and the ends of the wires are exposed and hanging bare. There's more I just can't remember it all.

Question: can I buy a bundle of wires that will go from the alternator to the regulator? and that battery charging wire, surely I can replace that one with appropriate guaged wire. Anyone know what guage that'd be?

Please help as I am 400 miles from home and desperately need to be home tomorrow a.m.

Please...
Thank you, Debbie

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  #2  
Old 08-04-2002, 01:36 PM
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If you're that desparate to get that car home today, I suggest you get towed to any mechanic or gas station who swears they can get you started. If they are unable to fix the wiring on the spot, They may have to put the charger directly to the starter to jump it, however, if you can drive like the "bat out of hell" until you get home, without the need to use headlights, radio, and especially the turn signals (they use a lotta juice) and remember not to shut down the engine for "gassing up", (of course unless the car is overheating, broken belt or some condition that otherwise poses a threat to the engine, tranny), fill up with engine running, and run home as fast as you can!!! Do not use even the radio, as it will kill the battery, use arm signals for lane changes, etc. Once a diesel engine is running, it does not need electricity to keep running. I once had to do this during a failed alternator, . . . that is, get a jump from AAA and drive 95 miles south to a mechanic that I trusted to work on the vehicle. It was daylight. However, I find 400 miles a little far to be pushing your luck. You may want to rent truck, with a tow dolly or trailer and drive home. Don't know what your finances are in the situation. Good luck, and let me know when you get home safe, OK?

also, did you just buy this car and need to drive it home? What's the situation?
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  #3  
Old 08-04-2002, 01:53 PM
debbiemarlow
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Thank you for your quick response and concern.
I bought this car from a man near my home who assured me that things were as good as could be expected for a '71: he'd had the alternator rebuilt, and several things that needed to be done after the car's "rest" in the shed for 3+ years. I am sure he'd be as surprised as I in this situation.

I am going to have to make other arrangements about getting there before tomorrow. But I have to get this car going again! Your idea of jumping off the starter - never knew you could do that! I believe I'll be safer to try to replace these wires. I will message this thread when I do get home but, I've a feeling there's a lot I'm going to have to do before I can get home. I appreciate your concern and help.

Do you know where I can find a schematic for a '71 220D?
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  #4  
Old 08-04-2002, 03:04 PM
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Schematic

You should find one, or your mechanic should have one in the Chilton's shop manual. However, a '71 should be significantly old enough and uncomplicated enough, that a good electrical person should be able to figure out how to unscrew up your wiring and get it relatively reliable. Then you can go thru with correct gauge wires at a later time, and one of the 1000-piece terminal sets from JC Whitney ($29 on sale) and have a field day replacing them one at a time until you have a new harness (since purchasing a harness will be next to impossible!!!).

I'm glad you decided not to take the 400 mile trip with the car running as it is. You may also want to grab some cutter/strippers ($1.99 for cheap set at hardward store - will hurt your hands after third wire) along with a roll of black electrical tape, and try to clean up stripped/broken wires that are obvious to you. You may have to open up the harness to find the shorts, but guaranteed, they're there!!! It will keep you out of saloons for at least an hour today while waiting for your ride!!! You have nothing to lose, anyway.

Oh, I take it your fuel pump is mechanical, and not electrical???

How is your engine related to mine? I have 2.2L diesel on 1984 190D.

Vicki
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  #5  
Old 08-04-2002, 04:32 PM
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WOW, two FEMALE forum members talking to each other ! I think this is a first....

You can replace that brown wire as long as you use the same or larger wire...remember that wire sizes get smaller as the guage number gets higher...

black electrical tape will "die" after a while.. if you can find shrink tubing where you get the other supplies.. you can seal it with a match... much longer lasting,,, and no gooey mess later either...
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  #6  
Old 08-04-2002, 06:15 PM
debbiemarlow
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Mercedesshop.com is a wonderful forum available to a host of very nice, caring folks - male and female, and I'd bet there's a lot more women posting than most guys imagine! Thank you, Vicki and all those who have helped me through my last few weeks of frustration and aggravation and helpless feelings. I am beginning to think much more positively that I will be able to make it home and make this car a good driving car.

Another question: if I cut into the bundle of wires, taking off the cover, do I just cut it off and toss it or is there a method to reuse it somehow or can I buy a large shrinkwrap. Good idea, leathermang! to use shrinkwrap instead of tape. I appreciate that.

I'm going to get started asap!!

Debbie
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  #7  
Old 08-04-2002, 07:53 PM
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Shrink tubing is available from the smallest wires you have to at least an inch and a half diameter.. I have seen that used,,
However,,, if you use the tubing... like an inch on each side of your splice..for the single wire connections ) then you could (probably more easily) use what looks like electrical tape... but is SHRINK TAPE... it is not as clean a looking joint on the ends but is very strong .... I am pretty sure I got my last roll at Radio Shack... they are relatively high for electrical stuff but there are so many of them that it is sometimes worth the savings in time...
The trick, since it is going to try to shrink in length also,,, is to bind the ends where you have started and stopped... so that the shrinkage happens onto the wires you have covered...so the ends don't look as nice as if you had put it all into a large tube.. but is very easy to do.. once your sure all the wires have been included...let us know how it goes if you try it... I have used this stuff for years... it does not die like regular electrical tape... read and follow the directions... overlapping the correct amount when wrapping... good luck, Greg
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  #8  
Old 08-04-2002, 11:10 PM
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Debbie,

Look in the owner's manual for the electrical diagram. Mine has it. Let me know if you don't have it in your manual and you'll get one another way, but I'll need to know when the car was built (look at the tag inside the driver's door for a manufacturing date or a number beginning with 115). Your Chilton's manual should also have it, by the way.

Perhaps the best thing at this point is to get home under somebody else's power and lay on the guilt trip with the previous owner. He ought to pay at least half the bill for getting the car home. Misleading people get me irritated. And you were misled.

Sounds like the "battery charging wire" was cut due to a bad alternator, bad brushes in a good alternator, or a bad regulator. Created either an overcharging condition or a "drain" for the battery to kill itself on, then was then jimmy rigged because of haste and/or lack of ability to diagnose and fix properly. Just like your brakes.

If you insist on driving the car home then you can pull start the car and drive it without electrical power, but you have no turn signals or brake lights. To pull start: connect a tow rope to another vehicle, get going about 30mph, then put the car in 3rd (manual) or high gear (auto). Keep towing until the car starts and runs under its own power. Remember to have the key on, the glow/start switch in the run position, and prearrange hand signals with the other driver. And take off the alternator belt before towing. 400mi is a long way, though, and I'd not recommend it without somebody to chase you home. No electrical power and suspect brakes are invitations for a disaster, in my opinion.

Psfred gave you a good description of how the alternator wires should properly go once you get to fixing. You'll need a multimeter to properly diagnose the three elements. Leathermang's suggestion for heat shrink or shrink tape is the way to go as far as covering a properly soldered connection. Don't just twist them together, as they'll untwist on their own.

Oh, and "jump the car for an hour" means just that. Connect jumper cables to another vehicle and let that vehicle charge your battery. At this point in your description I guess I wouldn't, due to the risk of damaging the other car. I'm not sure what's connected to what.

Good Luck, and keep us posted. I admire your pluck!

Leathermang, one of the best truck mechanics in this area (and one of my mentors) was a woman. The girlie pictures disapeared on their own out of respect for her abilities. And my cousin (also a woman) was a better than average heavy truck wrecker operator!
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  #9  
Old 08-05-2002, 01:42 AM
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You can also use a hair-dryer to shrink the tubing, so you won't have to burn your fingers with matches!!! Hair-dryers have so many applications, especially in upholstery work. I agree that the shrink tubing is better than electrical tape, and even auto zone, pep boys should carry it, if not, try an electronics store.

When I told you about driving home, I was secretly praying you woudn't take that option. I'm glad you found another way. I think you should also have a good mechanic inspect the car, 'cause it sounds like there may be more than one thing hanging off and not properly replaced!!! If you go thru the wiring, you'll be amazed how much brighter your dash lights become, etc. I think you'll have some project work going for awhile, but its better to plan it out if you know what you're up against, rather than deal with the inconvenient emergencies.

It also wouldn't be a bad idea to have a "maintenance day" when you change the oil, replace the hoses, belts, heater hoses, clean under the hood, flush the radiator, etc. You can learn about your car and its unique setup while you're doing that. At least you won't have to worry about breaking down for the cheap stuff that can be expensive to fix when in that situation (my ex-husband was too cheap to replace all the hoses when he overheated, and every month for 4 months, he blew them one at a time and paid $28 each time, instead of $28 the first time, with a few extra bucks for the extra hoses!!!). He was lucky he didn't blow a head gasket in the process!!! Prevention is worth a pound of cure with any car, especially an older one.

If you want to get an amusing movie going in your head . . . picture my 190D in a sloped parking lot with a dead battery in Las Vegas!!! Folks wouldn't listen to me about push-starting being different on a diesel. they Tried it in second gear!!! I warned them the car would do a handstand, and it did, much to the amusement of myself and the Mexican parking lot attendants who all climbed on the fence with sodas to watch the show!!! I finally got AAA out there. I have never had any luck getting jumped from another car, van or truck. Only AAA has been able to deliver the amps necessary to turn over the engine. If it takes an hour, it may be easier to disconnect the battery and connect it to a charger for 45 minutes,(which you can buy on sale, and keep in the trunk of your car, at least until you're convinced that all electrical problems are forever solved) and at least it will have a full charge when it starts. I'm finding even small chargers are very common and someone usually has one, if not the neighbors do. You may also want to invest in some tools, such as a cheap 40-piece socket set, allen wrench set, screwdriver set, and put them in the trunk of your car. It's amazing how many roadside repairs you can do yourself for having spent less than $20 of insurance.

Keep us informed on the ongoing saga of your car.

Vicki
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  #10  
Old 08-05-2002, 08:37 AM
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Debbie and Vicki,

I have owned and worked on a number of MB Diesels, including a 1971 220D. I have routinely push started them over the years, and last year when the starter was failing on the 1982 240D my daughter has at school in Upstate NY, I taught her to park on a hill and "pop start" it as she calls it. Depending on the road conditions the event works in 3rd gear fine, and 2nd if you are on good pavement. A little sand, water or other traction robbing condition on the road and 2nd will lock the rear wheels right up.
It is nice but not vital in summer, hot weather to light off the glow plugs. In winter weather it is pretty vital. I have done this in Vermont, in December at below zero temps when the car would not start even with an AAA service truck. That one was in the 220D after camping out in it because we ran out of funds to stay in a hotel. Should have let it idle all night as it was a long cold night. Pulled the headrests out and rolled the seats flat to make a reasonable spot to sleep. The inside of the windows were covered in pretty thick frost when we woke up and tried to start the car. Got the truck to pull us after no amount of cranking with any available battery would do the trick, and in 10 feet the unit was awake and clanking the Diesel cold start song. That was on snow pack. So, it can be done.

If your car is a manual transmission model (I thought all 220D's were manuals just because I cannot imagine the lack of performance you would get with an automatic, and that anyone could sell a car like that, but I could be wrong) one of the beauties of a Diesel is you should be able to start it this way even with a dead battery. Everything vital to operating the car is mechanical, not electric.

I have some old manuals for these cars and there are some wiring diagrams I can scan and either post or email to you. If you need it let me know. Posting a scanned text or line diagram like a wiring schematic takes a lot of bandwidth to remain legible so posting may be less successful.

Unfortunately the wiring diagrams do not come with any verbiage to explain things, so you have to study them to get the picture right in your head. Not too hard, but translating a black line on a white background that only makes right angle turns and is always parallel or perpendicular to the rest of the stuff on the page into what is under the hood can be a challenge. Locations on the diagrams have nothing to do with the locations in the car.

I also think you have a case to go back to the previous owner as an electrical tape repair of the brake line is something that could not have lasted more than a few hours and is so irresponsible it borders on malicious negligence. You are lucky the brakes failed in a benign situation. With that kind of luck, if you had purchased a lottery ticket instead of driven this car you should have won twice as much as the lottery was worth that day.

Good luck, and keep us posted. Jim
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Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)
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  #11  
Old 08-05-2002, 11:47 AM
piccolovic's Avatar
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My poor 190D!!!

I have attached pics of my 1984 190D. You guys have been super, as DebbieMarlow said earlier.
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  #12  
Old 08-05-2002, 12:18 PM
HGV HGV is offline
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I recall when I owned my 1969 220D that the brown wire from the regulator had overheated and broke. I found this by accident. It never made any diference in the charging of the car. I pried off the back of the 6 prong connection and spliced in a new one. THis should have no impact on the ability to start the car. It sounds like you might have a bad starter. Doyou hear a click when you try to start it? THe broken wire could just be a red herring. Good luck.

Henry
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  #13  
Old 08-05-2002, 12:26 PM
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It would have to be a brown herring Vicki, cool stealth 190 ... I can not see it AT ALL !
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  #14  
Old 08-05-2002, 10:28 PM
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How far can you go in a Diesel with the alternator not working ? Try from Alaska to Pennsylvania like I did. However I did charge the battery every night and only drove during daylight.

P E H
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  #15  
Old 08-06-2002, 08:35 AM
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I think we can award the long distance trophy to you .....how long did it take just driving days ? And which route did you take ?

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