Weeks ago, I posted that I had adjusted my injection pump timing using the Baylor method. This is the method where you look into the top of the IP pipe and watch for the fuel to just start to well up.

I eventually went back on both my 240 and 300 and checked my IP timing using the old fashioned, and sometimes dreaded, drip method. The drip method indicated that the Baylor method gave me an error of about 10 degrees!!

For me, the drip method was much easier and faster. With a leaking primer pump, you do tend to put a lot of fuel on the floor however.

So if you recently used the baylor method, I would be interested in your results. I could just never get it to work properly.

After adjusting the IP timing with the drip method, both cars run a lot better.

thanks
Joe

I tried the Baylor method on my '85 300D and it did not work too well. The problem seemed to be who was determining how much fuel was appearing in the injection pump nozzle opening. My 9 year olds eye was not very calibrated to be able to tell when it "first" appeared. I will try the drip method this coming weekend.

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Jim

Using the Baylor method or the drip method I stilll don't think either one of them is an exact science. After wrenching on these old Benzs for years I still have to play with that injection pump to get it right or close to right. I have tried to do it by the book but when it comes to the one drip per second is when I get lost. The MB Manual does not say how long it should flow before the drip should start, or how long it should drip one drop per second. I always start with the crank on 24 degrees BTDC ,the nuts on the pump loose, Injector lines off , number one injector cap off , spring and rotator out, cap back on , install overflow U pipe , lock the trottle in full load and pull the vacuum hose from the shut off valve. Pump the hand pump a couple of times to build pressure and then start watching and counting the drops. I have had a couple of pumps give the drop rate no matter which way you rotated the injection pump. If any of you know the secret to this adjustment I would love to hear about it.

MBJOE

Joe

Weeks ago, I posted that I had adjusted my injection pump timing using the Baylor method. This is the method where you look into the top of the IP pipe and watch for the fuel to just start to well up.

I'm not at all surprised you had problems using that method. It is simply immpossible to set the spill timing accurately without removing the pre-delivery valve which is set to break at about 80bar.

What you are looking for is the precise moment the metering piston shuts off from the L/P fuel chamber ( i.e. the start of max. delivery at 24° BTDC, hence one drop per second or less.)

The problem here is that even on a new pump where the metering piston and sleeve are lapped to achieve a clearance of less than 1 micron fuel will leak past the piston at 120 bar and on a worn pump you will be far into injection stroke before the delivery valve breaks open and you see fuel there - leading you to set the timing way too far advanced. In fact if you turn the engine over slowly enough you may not even break open the delivery valve at all!

I worked in the research and development test shops at Perkins Engines (UK) for 18 years in the 70's and 80's and the "drip" method was the standard way we set it in those days.

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Beagle

The best way to set with the drip method is to attach tube after removing pressure valve, then, with pump supplied with fuel from working primer or from a can of fuel suspened from the hood (the easy way), set engine to 24 BTDC while watching the fuel. It will run so long as you are before 24 degrees, should abruptly slow way down or stop as the plunger covers the slot in the bore of the sleeve. Unmistakeable. It may continue to drip slowly, about one drop per second or less, but the change in flow is what you are looking for. Fuel should flow freely before the slot is covered, slow way down just as it closes.

Having a can of fuel hung a foot or two above the IP works best, as the flow won't stop from a pressure drop due to lack of primer pump operation. Also easier to do on an engine stand prior to installing engine....!

If you have installed the pump per instructions, you should be close. You can rotate pump back and forth to set it exactly -- the less you do so, the better, though, as the paper gasket can tear and leak engine oil.

Peter

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1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!

Beagle thanks for the very professional and experienced post on my comments. Maybe I didn't explain myself well enough in the above post. I do remove the delivery valve and the spring before I screw on the drip pipe. It has always been a trial and error method for me. I guess I have not taken in to account that all the pumps I have worked on are 200,000 miles or more and the ware factor comes into play.

MBJOE

I didn't have any problem with the drip method. I pumped the hand pump (it does leak everywhere) and watched the fuel flow as I slowly moved the crank through 24 degrees BTDC. There is a very abupt change.

As a side note, retiming the IP on my 83 300D has solved my black smoke at idle problem with the A/C on. Mine was set too far advanced (about 27 or 28) by the previous owner (or his mechanic).

I ran the car this evening and it runs perfectly now.

Joe

If you have an older turbo engine, or newer aluminum head engine, there is an alternate method to set the IP timing. It requires a tool that you insert into the side of the IP. This only works on OM617.95x and OM60x engines. But it's a lot faster & cleaner than the "wet" methods.

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Dave
Boise, ID
Check out my website photos, documents, and movies!

Has anyone tried the method that uses compressed air to set the pump? If not, I have directions on my home computer and I can post them for discussion later tonight.

Greg
'84 300D, 166k

Nope, but I've heard of it. You have a 1984 model and can use the "dry" method with the $20 lock pin tool. I'd just do that!

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Dave
Boise, ID
Check out my website photos, documents, and movies!

Beagle,

I had a Perkins Diesel engine in a Ford Major tractor that was made in England. I couldn't keep head gaskets from leaking. They always leaked coolant into the engine and the water stopped circulating because the radiaton and top of engine would fill with exhaust and the engine would overheat. None of the coolant got into the oil pan. It must have gone out with the exhaust.

Replacing the head gasket would solve the problem temporarly but the problem always reappeared. I had the head resurfaced, shimmed up the cylinder sleeves to spec and even shimmed the sleeves higher. Nothing would solve the problem so eventually I sold the tractor for parts. Note, I made a tool that would lift the sleeves without removing the oil pan. That saved a lot of work since I removed the head many times. The engine was 220 cubic inch 4 cylinder. Was this a known problem? Was there a fix that I didn't know about?

Another thing I always wondered about. The engine had a compression release for cold starting. However, the starter handle was back near the steering wheel and the compression release lever was at the front of the engine. Therefore it took 2 people to start the engine when cold. Did the designers ever think that sometimes the operator might be alone and unable to start the engine when cold? So much for ergonomics. Maybe they didn't worry about that back then. It was a mid 50s tractor.

As far a setting the timing on the Perkins engine, I just set it where it ran the best which was slightly later than where it knocked. Great working, fast starting, powerful engine except for the head gasket problem. Really smoked under load but easy on fuel.

P E H

PEH

Well the 1950's is just a bit before my time! I joined Perkins Engines as an apprentice in 1959 and left in '83. Your engine would have been the L4, the only wet liner 4 cyl. we produced for Ford at that time. From what you describe it must have been blowing into the water jacket somewhere and you should have been able to locate where when you examined the gasket. Were you using the correct gasket cement? The gaskets at that time would have been copper/asbestos. I don't recall any such problems with that series during my time.

The decompression lever on the front of the rocker cover was not concieved for cold starting, the heater coil and Ki-Gas were supposed to take care of that. Its use for cold starts was really just a spin off. It was there to comply with Ford's requirement that the engine be able to be started by hand-cranking to 40 rpm. The idea was that you would crank it until you were just about to burst a blood vessel and then flip the lever down - now thats ergonomics for you!

I just set it where it ran the best which was slightly later than where it knocked.

You mean you found a setting where it didn't KNOCK???

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Beagle