What Germans Think of Today's Mercedes-Benz - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Joe Blowe · #1 10-30-2002, 12:17 PM

Article in today's LA Times about the first JD Power survey of automobile owners in Germany.

http://www.latimes.com/templates/misc/printstory.jsp?slug=la%2Dhy%2Dpower30oct30&section=%2Fclassified%2Fautomotive%2Fhighway1

"Auto buyers in the U.S. rarely rate domestic vehicles at the top of the heap in consumer satisfaction surveys, preferring instead benchmark makes such as Mercedes-Benz and BMW.

"It turns out that car owners in Germany don't like their domestics much either.

"They seem to prefer Japanese cars, rating them higher than most European makes in quality and reliability in J.D. Power & Associates' inaugural German consumer satisfaction index survey."

Also check:

http://www.jdpa.com/studies_jdpower/pressrelease.asp?StudyID=674

#2 10-30-2002, 12:43 PM

I can tell you for sure that whoever wrote that has NEVER been to Germany!

There are a few, but very few, Japanese vehicles.

Have a great day,

#3 10-30-2002, 01:29 PM

"In that study, Mercedes-Benz -- which sells only luxury cars in the U.S. -- finished below the industry average of 843 points. That was the cutoff mark below which Power won't issue rankings."

Interesting comment in the articlle about the quality slipping on the new cars. Have read elsewhere that the quality is not as good as in years gone by. Too many problems with all of the extras.

The other side of the equation is that the few Japanese owners in Germany are very likely to be supportive of their chosen auto. Sort of like the Bug owners were years ago, and to some extent still are. Theirs was a unique club. That would help them overlook certain deficientsies. A Toyota getting high marks has to be crazy.

DALE DORIA · #4 10-30-2002, 03:22 PM

Hmmmmmmm...........Wonder what the Japanese consider the luxury car of choice???

jivadent · #5 10-30-2002, 04:12 PM

Larry,

There are very few Mercedes here... does that mean that we don't consider them to be quality cars? In fact, that's why we consider them to be quality, and that's probably why the Germans consider the Japanese cars to be reliable.

"ooh, have you seen Werner's new car? A brand new Lexus!"

I mean, it's not like our Cadillacs and Lincolns are any less quality than Mercedes or Lexus. It's the fact that it's foreign that makes it so appealing.

patterson · #6 10-30-2002, 05:11 PM

I have owned Cadillacs and Lincolns and I must say that their quality is much inferior to Mercedes or almost any other import. Most people on this board own a Mercedes from the early 80's it seems. How many Lincolns and Cadillacs do you still see from the early 80's? My first Cadillac was a 1982 Eldorado Diesel. It blew up at 150,000. You are probably thinking that the Diesel was the worst engine but the other engine choices were:

1. HT4100 4.1 Liter V8 with Aluminum Block and Cast Iron Heads; most broke crankshaft around 100,000.
2. V 8-6-4 Often got stuck on 4 cylinders and rendered the huge cadillac almost unusable.
3. Buick V-6 Good engine but very underpowered.

So when you can look at the engine choices and decide the GM 350 diesel was as good as any you have a pitiful choice of engines.

The quality issues on that car weren't limited to the engine all the electronic stuff was a constant headache. The auto dimming light screwed up and would not allow me to dim the headlights. It would take a long time to list all the troubles with that car but I will conclude to say that my Mercedes with almost 400K on it is more reliable than the Cadillac was new.

#7 10-31-2002, 06:51 AM

"I mean, it's not like our Cadillacs and Lincolns are any less quality than Mercedes or Lexus. It's the fact that it's foreign that makes it so appealing."

I have to laugh out loud at such a comment. You must have never driven an MB long term.

Have a great day,

Diesel-Lover · #8 10-31-2002, 10:51 AM

QUALITY: My 2cents
Not very easy to quantify when it comes to the minds of a consumer.
There are quality products in all price points.
There are quality products in all use cases.
Some folks in the production area feel that:
The dedication of good efforts on the assembly line was here and doing greatly in the late 60s. Its a case by case issue.

I loved the 67 vintage mustangs, cudas, and cougars. The early 80s Jap products were also very good. Well engineered and pride in production and assembly, the trend seems present now as well. In Japan you see a lot of imported products but cant say that I saw a lot of import autos from US and the same for Euros. Korea one sees mostly domestic models. From what I understand BMW is officially offering a car to all the politicos to break the ice. High degree of national pride from what I understand.

I own a pontiac which is well made it has a few design quirks but not too bad in overall assembly quality. Trust the benz more though it is older and a diesel with 3x more miles.

One must look at the design goals: would not want to buy a jeep Cx for a long dist commuter veh as that was not the goal though some camel jockie types still use it for that purpose. So as a quality veh for going to the office weeelll you call it (I mighta said that about the Hummer or better yet the G but did not want to be kilt).

Quality is kinda like satisfaction to some degree: some people can get it and some cant! (wonder if status also belongs in this soup?)

Have fun all dont get too bent outa shape.

dieselman · #9 11-07-2002, 10:16 PM

Just My Two Cents

I have had cars from all three perspectives discussed. I Have in the past owned a 1992 Ford Crown Victoria 1992 Toyota Camry 1980 Mercedes 300sd. Let me start off by saying the Ford Which is similar to Lincoln was a piece of junk. Two Yes count them two automatic transmissions, heater core, power windows, air conditioning, Fuel pump, oxygen sensors, and a computer. All this with less than 150,000 miles. JUNK The Toyota was a very good car with very little problems. It seemed to be very well made I sold it with 193,000 miles. I noticed however that it was never as solid and stable even when it had 66,000 miles as my 300sd. That car currently has almost 201,000 miles and is solid as a rock. I can not imagine a better made car. 23 years old and solid as a rock. Nothing compares to a Mercedes Benz

psfred · #10 11-07-2002, 11:42 PM

Just to stir the pot:

American cars, are, buy and large, IMHO, junk. I've had some that were OK, but just that (1982 Dodge Aries, was running fine at 179,000 but the body was gone, not helped by three years in Ontario).

Japanese cars run forever, have drive trains almost as good as Benz, but suffer from extensive body and interior problems as they age.

My "old " Benzes, except for the leather in the 280, are begining to show some body problems, but the drive trains are in good to excellent condition. Not too shabby for 30 years and who knows what milage. Even the rotten old W108s in the junkyard died from neglect, and one of the professors at SIU showed up at an alumni reunion this Labor day in his 1962 220 -- bought it new, still drives it every day. Not too many other cars routinely achieve this kind of longevity.

The "quality" is rather subjective -- American cars, are, in the aggregate, sloppily assembled from mediocre to poor materials, but usually look pretty good new. Since new car buyers (a different segemnt of the US population that used cared buyers) almost never keep them very long, they will tend to judge quality high. Anyone who tries to get 20 years or 250000 miles on one will beg to differ.

Japanese cars live a lot longer, but the interior materials are definitely inferior by the 10 year mark.

And they ALL suffer from computer idiocy. Western civilization seems to have a very unhealthy fixation at the moment with glitzy computerized junk -- none of it not very good nor, to my mind, necessary. I've heard the new Benzes are terrible for dead this and that, all computerized, and all VERY expensive to replace, to the point that middle 90's cars are going to the junkyards -- who is going to spend 10,000 bucks a year to keep a used car going? No way to fix except replace that $4000 climate control computer AGAIN........

Peter

ML Dude · #11 11-08-2002, 12:03 AM

There was a lengthy discussion awhile back similar to this one on the quality issue of MB and others.....

My summary point and one I think is proving itself to be true, is that planned obselesence determines our perceived quality ratings. The profit motive makes the manufacturer build less costly and less durable items as product. The inventory turns are more frequent on parts and people need new cars every 4-5 years and that's exactly how they want it!

Of course they could build better quality cars, but why?!?!?

turnne1 · #12 11-08-2002, 01:34 PM

I think if you look at the pure statistics some of the Japanese cars are very inexpensive to own....some of those old honda and toyotas from the 80's run until their bodies fall apart..and many of them were much cheaper to buy also....do they drive as well...?...absolutely not!!....but there is a niche for the person who wants modern conveniences in a car that has extremely low maintanance....some people don't like to spend any time at the dealer...no matter how well the car handles and drives

as for the electronics of todays cars(and yesterday's for that matter)...the electronics seem to be much more reliable on the Japanese cars

why am I not driving one?

because I love the ride and look of my car....and obviously don't mind putting in a considerable amount of time at the MB dealer

Warren
1992 300SD
Columbus Ohio

The Warden · #13 11-08-2002, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by psfred
The "quality" is rather subjective -- American cars, are, in the aggregate, sloppily assembled from mediocre to poor materials, but usually look pretty good new. Since new car buyers (a different segemnt of the US population that used cared buyers) almost never keep them very long, they will tend to judge quality high. Anyone who tries to get 20 years or 250000 miles on one will beg to differ.

Actually, I beg to differ with that post. My other vehicle's American-built. It has about 212K miles on it right now. The interior, except for the door panels, it's actually in better shape than my 300D. The engine's never been torn into; in fact, the only serious engine work that's been needed has been a couple of injector pump replacements (one of which was done after I bought it).

I'll admit that the truck's been well taken care of in it's lifetime, while I have a feeling that the Benz was neglected for at least some of its life. Also, it may be an unfair comparison to most American vehicles 'cause the truck is also diesel-powered. I would be willing to write off most American-built vehicles from the late '70's and the '80's, but I'm not willing to buy the notion that they're all junk. GM, yes, along with the Ford Pintos, Chrysler K-cars, and such, but not everything.

If there was an American car diesel (other than the 350 POS g@$$er-converted-into-a-Mickey-Moused-diesel) out there that got the kinda mileage my 300D got, I'd probabyl be driving that instead. However, now that I have the 300D, short of catastrophic engine failure, I'm not giving it up.

#14 11-08-2002, 05:27 PM

If you can believe it my brother just resurected my uncles 1978 Olds Cutlass, with that POS @#! desiel engine. I told him to be sure to have a good current bus pass if he drives beyond the neighborhood.
The car looks great. Uncle had since new and had about 70k on the odometer. He just never got rid of it, and was afraid to drive it because of all the early troubles he had.
Now that is the car that convinced America to give up on desieling.

oldsouth · #15 11-08-2002, 11:25 PM

American Cars - Good value for the money but inferior to Mercedes in terms of quality and build.

Japanese Cars - They are good at copying other good cars. Take the new Lexus, it is a copy of the 140 series. Their bodies also rust out prematurely.

Mercedes - SOLID and well screwed together. Premium materials. Thought out construction.

My .02 worth.