Trap Oxidizer on 85 TD ??
 

I just picked up an 85 300TD. Its got about 88 thousand miles.. Its in Good shape but dirty as I got there before the last owner (Original owner) had a chance to clean it up.. Starts and runs great.. Every thing is there and works except the tac.. and has no leaks.. but does need normal Maintance..

I got it home about 8 last night after a 700 mile trip to pick it up.. It drove nice.. But did not have the power to keep up with my wifes 78 300 CD climbing the 6 to 11 percent grades here in the high country.... The injector pump has just been rebuilt.. So the timing may well be off.. I have seen lots of those where they were replaced and were off and instead of removing it and reinstalling it to check it again, they just let it go out of the shop... However it has the Trap Oxidizer on the exhaust.. Records show its about time to replace it..

Is it worth having Mercedes replace it .. Or just chunk the thing and replace it with pipe so the darn thing will run .. I have no clue about what people are doing with those things....

I have had Mercedes Diesel cars for the last 45 years and have done all my own work.. But know nothing about the Trap Oxidizer cars.. But I wanted a 123 TD and this one was in the best shape and was the best deal with the lowest miles..

Ken
Yreka, Ca.

1978 300 CD For sale..
1985 300 TD
1992 300 CE

Supposedly MB, at one of their dealers, will replace the trap oxidizer at no charge with a complete exhaust system.

Give it a try, you have nothing to lose.

P E H

Thanks for the reply..
I have the paper work that says they will replace the trap at 30000 miles intervals.. But from what you said I now wonder if they did not come up with a better idea.. MY plan was to call Mercedes next week and talk to the Reps. at Mercedes.. However I was intrested if any one had done some thing different like just junking the thing...


Ken

The trap oxidizer will be replaced by MB at normal service intervals or if it fails (the better choice, by the way!) with a catalyst and they will replace the turbo, too if damaged (I don'tknow if the turbo is in front or behind the 617 trap).

If the trap is plugged, not a terribly uncommon thing, you will have poor performance but very good milage, and may have soot in the engine compartment and a whistling noise from the exhaust escaping from the seals in the pipe in front of the trap.

You may have some trouble getting the dealer to do the work, some drag their feet terribly. This is a warrenty item, won't cost you a dime.

DO NOT mess about with it yourself, you will void the warrenty and have to pay for the replacement, and you don't want to do that! Runs about $2000 all told.

Peter

Thanks for the reply Peter..

Little question its plugged... It has the soot... It has the Whistling noise.. Very loud.. will not get out of its own way.. This is good information to have .. Nice to know things like this before calling... Gives me some idea of what to say and what to look for... I have just starting looking it over and doing some service... All in all I am very happy with it... Seems I got a good deal and the fellow was far more honest than I really thought he was... Nice when things seem to work out..

Ken

I did call Mercedes.. Got a rep by the name of Doug.. He was the most unplesant person I have talked to in years.. He would not answer any questions.. Would not take the SN of the car and check what had been done.. Screamed at me that every thing was handled by the dealers... We drove the 300 miles to the dealer.. Gave them the SN... They said the program was ended... I ask if they could tell me what was on the car from the SN on the part.. They said that information could not be given out... So Have no clue what I have or what can be done execpt to try to weed it out and fix it my self.. Got my first Mercedes in 57.. been driving them and had 2 or 3 at all times from then... If I were a new buyer I would not ever get one...

Ken

"The program has ended" is bull**** -- my brother had his replaced last year.

You will probably have to try another dealer. MB customer "service" is going to the bad place -- too many Chryler executives involved, probably. Try another call to MB and insist on a different rep, too -- "the dealers handle that" isn't an acceptable answer. Get the idiot's boss on the line, too -- he may not know the dip doesn't know what he's talking about. Fairly common to put young, goodlooking, ignorant kids in charge of things these days, and their usualy excuse when they don't understand something is to deny you know what you are talking about......!

The program is still in effect, don't give up yet. The jerk service writer is probably under pressure not to take any since the dealer doesn't make much on the service, and MBUSA is allowing dealers to treat customers like dirt -- only rich, buy an new S class every six months customers count (typical american idiocy at the moment).

Persevere, there is a new catalyst and turbo waiting for you out there.

Wow - what a jerk. I'd contact the zone rep and report him. Also, a plugged trap will kill power AND reduce MPG significantly. Even a clean, new trap will reduce MPG by 5-10% compared to NO trap. Anyway, here's link to some trap oxidizer documents that Mercedes probably doesn't want you to see (at the bottom, in PDF format):

http://www.meimann.com/docs/mercedes/

Let us know what happens!


Regards,

You need to take it to another dealer and complain to MBNA about the first one you went to. Any good dealer will show you the warranty history on the car if you can prove you own it. They have a national computer database that keeps records and any dealer can access it. I have twice gone to the local dealer with my registration and they have cheerfully looked up the data on my trap(s). Considering the low mileage I'd guess the trap was replaced with a new trap at 60,000 miles (or maybe not) but it was before MBZ started to do the retrofit with the updated catalyst that never needs replacing. You may have one of the last cars out there with the old trap oxidizer. The old oxidizers would easily clog if you used fuel additives. There were one or two additives that were OK for traps (and in my experience hard to find) but most were not. There was a lot of confusion about additives because only the '85 California 123s had an issue with this. In fact, when I bought my used '85 from a dealer in L.A. ten years ago the salesman told me to always use an additive. I later read the manual and it said to NEVER use an additive on cars with a trap. Cars with the newer catalyst don't seem to have a problem with additives but the trap oxidizers definitely did. You can not tell the difference between the catalyst and the oxidizer visually, or at least I can't, on the '85s they look the same. Get this fixed soon because the back pressure from a clogged oxidizer may ruin more than your turbo. MBZ will replace it for free. If the dealer suggests otherwise make a BIG stink. They will do it. Once you get a catalyst you should never have to replace it and it should never be a problem. Mine was replaced about 8 years ago and I've had zero problems since. If it were me I'd be careful removing it because if you have a problem later from the clogged oxidizer you'll undoubtably have voided your warranty. By the way, it sounds like you found a great car. Congratulations.

Please report that guy Doug who gaffed you off! Hopefully you threw it right back in his face!
I bought a 1985 California model 300D-T last year and inquired about the trap at three Mercedes dealers, and they all were very willing to help.
I brought my car in to the closest one 8 months ago and they replaced the trap with a catylist that theoretically never needs replacing. I didn't notice any difference in how it ran, I guess the old one was fine.

Good luck,
Adam Bush

FYI - on OM617 engines, the trap is after the turbo. So a plugged, or failed, trap can't damage it. On OM603 engines, the trap was before the turbo, and if chunks broke off the trap they would enter the turbo and destroy the impeller blades. My '87 300D got a new turbo when the trap was replaced back in 1994 or so by the PO, before it was removed a few years later. But the turbo replacement won't apply to 123's...

:)

Thanks guys.. I have been a Mercedes owner from 57 and do not always like to charge in and get it done... I have found that lots of times its easier to hear what people have to say and add it all up.. Then drop it all on them.. Mercedes was notified about Doug.. Odds are he did not sleep last night...

The dealer I went to was in Medford Oregon.. They are a ford dealer.. and have gotten rid of all the Mercedes people that came when they bought the dealer ship.. and all the Mercedes parts people.. Trying to get any thing done there or any parts is a real pain... Sad to say the Mercedes people are now 2nd class people behind the ford owners.. And they go out of their way to let you know it...

About the Trap.. I was able to get an after hours print out from a friend that said it was replaced 2001/09/13.. at 80,157 miles.. it now has 88 thousand..

My goal now is to figure out what it was replaced with..
It is still a tank thing before the turbo.. with nothing else in the exhaust system except a muffler at the end.. Was this a CAT or is it still the old ceramic device.. My friend that got me the print out does not have access to what it is..

It says that two things were changed... Numbers were 61795212086330 and 0133675 ...

I have had more time to check the car over.. Other than not getting the right service for the last couple years.. It has had good service for the years before.. I found new brake rotors front and rear, new brake pads front and rear.. New AC Compressor., and the injection pump has been rebuilt just a short time back.. I have to wonder if it is not out of time..Going to look into that soon.. Can not seem to find what the timing should be for that year.. All my books on the 123 and 116 end in 82.. But will guess at about 24 BTC.. Going to call around and see what I can find out.. Guess I need to get the CD for that year... .. My list of things to replace so far other than what ever it needs to make it run right has been a valve cover gasket and a thermostat because it was running to cool.. Not a bad list.. Other than needing cleaning up it is in as good a shape as any used car I have ever got.. Even better than the 92 300CE that I just got for my wife that could be taken to any show..

Ken

GSXR..

Thanks for the link to the information.. It may answer the questions... Sad in todays world with so much information at our finger tips that so many people are to lazy to pull it up and print it out... It could save lots of problems and bad feelings..

Thanks again..

Ken

Trapped:
 

This subject is full of different ideas.There has been some leeway for the dealers. But in my case I was informed that MBUSA will replace it once.
The link above has more information than I have been able to get in the last year. The parts numbers for all replacement are there. Personally I bought a junk one in addition to the one on my car. I am having the flanges cuttoff and a pipe welded in between. I am not woried about warrenty.
Another thing that you will find is that this car has a special starter on it,because of this Trap size. It cost $100 more than the other starters.
On the issue of Injection pump timing. Do the search of old files. There are three methods.
Baylor,Factory drip, and old german "bubble method". Am doing this right now and the bubble has been the best. Good luck and enjoy the car.
Don't let the dealers get you down. The fact are with Fastlane and a few others why would you buy from them. Pay more and get bad service. That is like shopping in Beverly Hills. Charlie

Ken,

I think the numbers you list are the engine number, and something else (tranny number)? 617952-12-086330 means an OM617.952 engine, engine number 86,330 (I forget what the 12 means). Not sure about the other number.

The original trap oxidizer was part number 617-142-00-94, it was replaced with an oxidation catalyst p/n 617-142-02-94. You very likely have the new cat... but it will look identical to the old one. You can only tell the difference visually on the OM603 engines, where the cat was physically moved downstream in the exhaust.

Injection timing is 24 BTDC if you use any of the "wet" methods like drip or bubble. But you can use the nifty pump lock tool on your car (and all 82-up turbo cars), it costs ~$25 from the dealer, and using this method you set it to 15 ATDC (different reference points, hence the different numbers.) Along with a new T-stat, also replace the temp sender in the cylinder head (~$10), this was the cause of the temp gauge reading low on my 1984 300D. Now it stays parked at 85-90C at all times, summer & winter...

Oh - forget the local MB parts department. Get a copy of the EPC (what the dealers use for parts lookup) on eBay or elsewhere, and find your own part numbers. Then order the stuff online from FastLane or ***************! You'll get much better pricing too, most dealers charge MORE than MB list price, and the online guys will sell 10-20% below list. The only time I go to the dealer anymore is for alignments and tranny fluid changes. :D :D


Regards,