Tranny Dip stick??? PLEASE help! - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

190D22 · #1 12-03-2002, 08:13 PM

I took my car in for a transmission flush and filter change. The guy is great. But we're both confused... He filled it so it's slightly overfull and I take it home and it is just leaking tranny fluid like a sieve. I take it back and he drops the pan again and puts a new pan gasket in. The pan gasket was slightly leaky he said when he was first in there. He refilled it and it only took 2 quarts and the dipstick was reading overfilled... WAY overfilled. He said the transmission is perfect, the original fluid was perfectly clean, 0 metal in the pan. He calls these leaks 'burps' out of the transmission breather. He wants to get this correct just as much as I do. Especially since he just rebuilt the jeep's transmission yesterday. But anyway since I've brought it home it appears the leaking has stopped and it runs fine. I drove it around again and it has since not leaked anymore. We agreed I would bring the car in tomorrow around 4:00PM for him to look at it again and clean it up.

He and I discussed the dip stick... why would it take 2 quarts after being drained and read over filled??? I checked it the second time I came home with it and it read overfilled like I had done when I tried topping it off myself. He agreed with me that the dipstick is difficult to push down into the tube. He said the dip stick does not appear to be bent, but the tube looks twisted. Don't know how the tranny tube can get messed up... but it makes sense. He asked if that is the correct dip stick, I told him as far as I know it is. But the dip stick being incorrect seems to make sense, because when I checked it the very first time it was not registering on the stick at all... So I put a quart in and it read WAY overfull. But throughout all of this the tranny has acted no different. If anything it shifts better right now.

If anyone on here can offer some insight please, it's greatly appreciated and very accepted right now!

engatwork · #2 12-03-2002, 08:31 PM

Something is not right here. Did he drain the torque converter too? How much fluid did he put in if he did not drain the torque converter. It is my opinion that, although he wants to do the right thing, he may not know what the right thing to do is when it comes to changing the tranny fluid/filter and then refilling.

190D22 · #3 12-03-2002, 09:14 PM

He told me DO NOT drain the torque convertor on transmissions with 60K+ miles. He said you only want to drain about 70% of the fluid. I did not ask why... but I think he would know what he's doing with transmissions, no offense to you all. It is a specialized transmission shop. I will ask him why you don't want to drain the torque convertor.

But it's not leaking anymore since I've taken the car out. I checked since my last post, and the only additional fluid that's in my pan is very little, which I am willing to bet is from what was in the belly pan.

Gil · #4 12-03-2002, 09:23 PM

That's a new one on me. I'd like to know also, as to why you shouldn't drain the torque converter, since every service manual seems to say that this is normal, regardless of mileage.

airfoill · #5 12-03-2002, 10:00 PM

I have never heard of not draining the torque converter on a MB....that is what the drain plug on the torque converter is for. The engineers installed the drain plug on the torque converter for a reason. I would take the car somewhere else that knows what they are doing.

Herb
'82 240D
'87 300SDL
'92 300D 2.5 Turbo

psfred · #6 12-03-2002, 10:12 PM

Torque converter should always be drained, else you are only changing about a third of the fluid. Why leave old nasy dirty fluid in there?

In the case of most automatics, it isn't possible to drain the torque converter, there isn't a plug. To drain a US one, you usually have to drill a hole (two, actually, 180 degrees apart) and insert a plug when you are done. MB nicely provides a drain plug.

If, however, you don't drain the convertor, but look in the book for replacement volume, you will put in several more quarts of fluid than you should. May or may not register as seriously overfull on the stick, but it will blow out the vent when the tranny gets hot.

It wasn't leaking, it was dumping fluid out the top vent.

I've ALWAYS added a couple quarts, then checked frequently while adding the rest of the fluid, it's too hard to get the excess out if you overfill.

Peter

190D22 · #7 12-03-2002, 10:47 PM

Well the dealer knows less. I will talk to him about the torque converter tomorrow... it does make sense that draining the torque converter will not do damage or else why would they put a drain plug on it? Though one of you said if you don't drain it you only get out about 1/3 of the old stuff. He put in 2 quarts which is roughly 1/3 the total capacity and it read overfilled. So this math works out, pretty much. But he said the old stuff wasn't bad, so I'm sure what's in the torque converter is fine, but I will talk with him on it.

So is the dumping fluid out the top vent a safety feature with the transmission to prevent overfilling?

Is your transmission dip stick kinda tough to get in and out of the tube? It's not easy like an engine dip stick.

Holson Adi · #8 12-03-2002, 11:57 PM

The dipstick isn't as easy as the oil dipstick to remove? Mine is a little tougher (longer) to remove but not by much.

I brought my own ATF (Mobil 1 Synth) to my mechanic and he took the old fluid out of both (Torq. Conv incl.) put some cheap ATF inside the trans.. drove it around and drained it all out again and put mine in.

190D22 · #9 12-04-2002, 12:06 AM

Well how you all are describing this, it must mean I've got something wrong with either the dip stick or the tube. Thanks guys!

Mine I have to hold the red top and hold the stick and push it down to be able to get down, then once it's low enough I can push it from the top alone. Perhaps I have the wrong dip stick? Or are all MB tranny dip sticks the same length from this era?

Thanks again for the help!!

psfred · #10 12-04-2002, 12:46 AM

Has the transmission every been removed from this car? If so, and I remember correctly what Hans was saying, the dipstick tube holddown bolt is a major pain to remove and re-install if the engine isn't removed. Probably have a bent dipstick tube.

However, the dipstick on my 280 SE is bent and will only fit down the tube in one orientation!

Don't forget that the dipstick is only accurate with the engine and transmission hot and engine running in park.

Peter

190D22 · #11 12-04-2002, 07:03 PM

The tranny guy said the same thing, the transmission was most likely out of the car at one time. The fluid level is fine now. It's just the thing doesn't want to shift when it's cold... he said it's the seals. He told me not to put the stuff in that expands the seals, but have any of you used anything like this that doesn't over expand them?

I forgot to ask him, but when it is cold and not wanting to shift right do I not want to push the car, just take it slow? I will definately need to let it warm up now.

Any tips here?

psfred · #12 12-04-2002, 09:14 PM

Every automatic I've every driven was reluctant to shift cold. It's a result of the higher viscosity of the oil before it heats up.

Don't push it, just let it wind out a bit more. Synthetic tranny fluid will help, and will reduce the harshness of the shifts cold, too.

If your dipstick has a kink in it, it may be very difficult to get around the first bend in the tube -- try inserting it in different rotational orientations until you find the easiest, then leave it there. That's what I have to do with the 280.

Peter

190D22 · #13 12-04-2002, 10:21 PM

Thanks fred. But this shifting was verrrry different from the usual cold start up shifts. It hesitated very badly when it came time to shift. I will see how it does tomorrow after a nice sit over night.

Do you think the block heater will help this? Since it heats up the radiator and the tranny has lines going to the radiator (right?) which will help heat the tranny fluid.

Ducati · #14 12-05-2002, 04:05 AM

Transmission fluid is cheap. I drain the contents of my pan, about 2 litres, every 3 months or less, and top it up. Is this stupid cheapskatedness or what? So far so good.

I have heard horror stories of guys with Mercedes Automatic transmissions who have changed fluid only to have the entire freaking transmission fail within a month. Whats with that?

I am sorry, but my old 123 is a $5000 car. I am maintaining it on the cheap. While I wont scrimp on the quality of the motor oil or the drain intervals, I won't pay stupid money to keep it running reliably. Why change tranny fluid when perioidic replacement of a bit of fluid at a time is working; especially given the news that a fluid change caused a failure to a poster to this forum a while back. Am I a fool or what?

190D22 · #15 12-05-2002, 05:59 PM

Yes I agree with you fully now. It has dawned on me that replacing tranny fluid over long periods of time hurt the transmission. The seals dry rot and the dirt actually keeps the seals working correctly. You dump in new tranny fluid which contains detergent and it washes this dirt out and the seals now do not work right. So now you have to let the thing heat up before you drive or it will not build pressure well.

So doing some at once will still keep enough dirt in there while also getting enough out to balance this scenario out.

I now have to live with these bad seals. Or I can get them replaced, but that will cost 3 or 4 grand, when I can buy a rebuilt one for 1500 or 2000. Then pay these guys to swap them out.

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