I want to convert my 84 300d to a four head light system, good idea?
 

I am going to upgrade the 7 inch lights to cibie H4. I am also planning on changing out the fog lights and replacing them with 5.75 H4. I plan on running the low beams (5.75) with the pull out fog light switch and relaying the high beam to go on with the 7 inch high beams.

Does this jive with most of you?

Why am I doing it?
I want alot of light without the hassle or risk of high wattage bulbs.

Has anyone else done this?

thanks folks

bob c

I was thinking of doing this.

I like the 5.75" Complex Reflector Lenses..

http://lighting.mbz.org/products/products.html

Check them out...

However I was not sure if I wanted the high beams or low beams in place of the fogs.

The other option was to install Xenarcs... real HID's however I was not sure if I wanted them as I figured they'd look a little silly on an old diesel.

if I did this, I would definitely go with the 5.75" High Beam H1's in place of the fog lights.

The fog lights would probably go below the bumper a'la R107 / W116.

The other thing I wasn't sure of was whether or not the fog light housing has enough adjustments..

I'm not too crazy for the flat-lens Euro style headlights either. I like them however the US ones look just as good in my opinion. Except for their lighting performance..

F A B U L O U S I D E A ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

I did not know there was such a light available. I wish you could do something like this on the 124 cars with US lights. They are the ones with the REALLY bad lights.

Before I had Euro lights in my 123 car, I ran the sealed beam replacements and they were pretty good. I broke one and the other one got water in it and ruined the reflector. I then just bought some Halogen sealed beams and even with those, had much better headlights than a US light equipped 124.

I think that as long as you use a 5.75" DRIVING LIGHT and ensure that it is not a FOG light, you could make an outstanding set of lights. The fact that you can individually turn on and off the 5.75 makes it even better.

At that point the only advantage of Euro lights that you are probably giving up is the dashboard adjustable beam height.

Fun thread,

That Daniel Stern Lighting page is very informative but $50 a light ain't cheap. Anyone know what other vehicles use a 5.75" high/low headlight? I was thinking maybe 80's BMW's? Simply replacing the fog lamps with US spec high/low headlamps and wiring them into the system with some good relays would likely give a good, cheap improvement to the stock setup. Whaddya think? RT

Sure there are. About every full size American car from '58 on into the early seventies had dual headlamps, and I'm quite sure they were 5.75". This gives you two choices, the outer lamp on that system had both high and low beams, the inner had high beam only.

It didn't even occur to me that this is why there was such a thing as the 5.75" light that the Bern sight was replacing. I just thought that it was a lamp for some special purpose.

The cars that had twin, round headlights are quite old so you may not find them on the shelf at Auto Zone, but I bet they can get them for you cheap. I'll be you can even get a Halogen version for about $12.

This thread is full of great ideas. If I finish getting my daughters 123 car back on the road, I will do this.

Have a great day,

On another note, is there a good reason not to wire the stock highbeams so that both the lowbeam filament and the highbeam filament are on? It would certainly help with lighting, but I don't want to melt anything either...

Warden,

I don't think there would be a lot of advantage. I think if you used Halogens for the regular 7 inch headlights and added high beam only 5.75's, and adjusted them properly, you would have great light. The beautiful thing about these assemblies is that you will have independently adjustable additional high beams with the fog lamps replaced with real headlights.

Today it makes no sense to use any kind of sealed beam other than Halogen.

One other thought. Rather than using the wire to the existing foglights for this high beam 5.75, use a relay that is energized from the existing high beam wire. Then connect the contacts of the relay between the foglight wire and your extra high beam. That way you are dimming and brightening the beams with the regular dimmer switch, and they will be turned on as long as the fog light function of the headlight switch is actuated (pulled out.)

Good luck,

When I was a kid, I had a 1970 Impala with four headlights. I took the hi beams out and installed aircraft landing lights and relays. Lights up everything quite nicely. Very bright, as I recall.
Fred

I have seen people use upgrade lamps without thinking about the wiring. The wiring in our cars is 15-25 years old and designed before high output/wattage lamps. It is fairly simple to add a completely new dedicated wiring harness to the headlamps with two heavy duty relays. That Daniel Stern site had a decent price on a kit to do this. Heavy gauge wire direct from the battery or even the alternator will make a noticeable difference with standard halogens. It can also be done without disturbing or cutting into the factory wiring so you can easily return to stock if you want. I am gonna do the 5.75's with regular halogens and a heavy duty harness and expect it to be more than bright enough. RT

Yeah those are the HID's (Sylvania's Xenarcs).

I have seen them for $500 shipped for the complete conversion kit (all you need is some time to fix 'em up I guess)

I am really interested in the Xenons.. I know that most people will think I have those fake-xenon bulbs. But at least they'll wonder why they are so bright. I am waiting for a review of these Xenarcs though.

I wanna know what the beam pattern is like. Is it like those E-Code Xenons?

The fog lights would definitely go if I buy the Xenarcs. They would probably be replaced by those Complex Reflector 5.75" high beams wired as high beams.

The fog lights... not too sure. I might just get the R107's fog lights and mount them under the huge bumper.

I need new headlight doors though ;)

Thanks folks for the positive imput

I get a good idea now and then and like to share them. I have not put it all together yet as I need one more lens. I have been buying the lenses off of ebay for fairly cheap. Not that the car is not worth brand new parts, but I will try a cheaper way for now. If money was no object at all I wouldnt be driving an 84 300d. It would be a 95 or something newer. She is truely a great car and soon enough will have a set of great lights.

Some folks were talking about adding regular halogen 5.75. That also would be a great improvement. For alot less money. under 50 bucks including lights relays and wire.

See you later,

I will report back when complete.

bob c

I know everyone on here hates the US lighting on the 80s benzes. I've seen some old mercedes around here (the early 126s specifically) with really dim headlights, Almost look like flashlight bulbs in terms of light quality. Is this why you all HATE the US lighting? I'm asking because I don't have any problems with my lights. They are plenty bright. I have Sylvania Silverstar halogens in my car right now. I have also had sylvania cool blues. The cool blues were pretty bright, but the silverstars give much better visability. Though I think I may go to Xenon eventually.

190D22,

I don't remember ever driving a 201 series car like yours at night, so I can't speak for it.

The car that I CAN speak for, and I believe the car for which you will hear the most complaints is the 124 series with US lights. They, are, TERRIBLE! They are much worse than the US lights on the 123 car which is the series about which this thread was started.

The 123 has standard 7" sealed beams which are outdated, but the good news is there are many options because there are literally millions of cars that have been equipped with them from the factory.

The 124 lights are specific to that model, so you can't just put whatever aftermarket standard sealed beam product in their place. Euro model replacements is the only reasonable alternative.

Does the 201 have rectangular sealed beams?

Have a great day,

That makes sense now. I did not know the 124s required 124-specific bulbs. A 124 makes sense to convert to euro headlights.

My car uses standard 6054 sealed beam headlights, which is also what I think the older 126s use.

I have seen a car with the old flashlight looking bulb in one side, and then a halogen on the other side. It looked really weird. But it shows you how much better a halogen is.

Well I got them in
 

It took some time getting all the parts together. 2 7inch, 2 5.75 inch cibies. I wired it all in, Soldered all the connections. However, I must say at this time I am a little disapointed with the output of the lamps. Sure it is better that sealed beam, but I want more. I have to adjust the lenses a bit more. I am running standard wattage to all the bulbs. I wanted to see if that would be enough. I am very tempted to go overwattage on the 7 inch. BUt I am concerned about attracting too much attention from the boys in blue. I must admit that the high beams do work pretty good as they are.

I will keep all posted.


One thought. if and when you do this buy black wire to run to the lights and relay. I used green and it looks kind of crappy. I dont care because I am not that fussy but black would be alot cleaner looking.

bob

Bob,

You have four E-code Cibie's with stock bulbs and it's not enough? Or did I misinterpret your earlier posts? Measure the voltage at the bulb with the engine running, then measure at the battery. I bet you measure about 13.6-13.8 at the battery, not sure what you'll see at the bulbs with relays (depends on the wire size you used).

IMO, you need to do two things. One, get an adjustable voltage regulator for your alternator and set the voltage to 14.2-14.4 with the alternator hot. Read Dan Stern's web site, the extra 0.5 volts can make a BIF difference. Two, assuming your wire size is decent, install high-wattage bulbs. I have 130/90 H4's in my Euro lights plus 100 H3's in the (high-beam) driving lights. I have one 8-gauge cable from the battery going to a fuse holder, then 10ga to EACH side where it drops to 12ga to feed 2 relays per side, then 14ga to the lights. They are so bright it is scary on high beam! Practically daylight. I get 14.2v at the battery under load with high beams on. Although I have a 124 the idea is similar - photos of my install are here:

http://www.meimann.com/images/mercedes/W124_stuff/
(scroll down to "relays...")


Jamie K did a similar W123 4-light upgrade, details are here:
http://www.jaimekop.com/240D/lights/


For good prices on Hella E-code lamps, 7.0 and 5.75 inch, try here:
http://www.susquehanna.com/susq/hella/headlamp.htm



The bulbs you use CAN make a difference, and name brands are not always the best. Either buy from Dan Stern (he only sells the good stuff) or buy online here:
http://www.powerbulbs.com/



190D, the early 201's used sealed beams I think. The later 201's used propriatary headlight assemblies like the 124's which took 9004 bulbs, which are awful. Your lights may look OK to you but I suspect that's because you haven't driven with real Euro lights yet!


edited to correct wire sizes used... oops!

Regards,

Yeah I knew the 190s got new headlights in like '89 or something like that. But didn't know that the change was actually for the worse in terms of visability. They added the headlight wipers with the update... Which I am glad I don't have now!

gsxr

Man your set up sounds good. I will check my voltage today. I must confess that I screwed something up yesterday. One of the cibie (bought off of ebay) had some what I thought was rust on it so I tried cleaning it off with acid and light sand paper. I took of all of the remaining chrome. Oh well,

A word of advice or just an educated opinion. If you are going to buy these lenses get new ones. Sure they are expensive but as I found out, again, you get what you pay for


thanks for all your imput


bob

I personally would not jack up the voltage.

I believe the solution is getting the aim right. You need level ground about 20 feet away from a garage door and do some measuring, sketching and experimenting. You have plenty of light, you just need to get it in the right position.

My $0.02,

There is NOTHING wrong with increasing the ridiculously low voltage setpoint on the old alternators, as long as it's kept below about 14.8-15.0 with a stone cold alternator (will drop as it heats up). Some light reading on the subject:


http://www.landiss.com/battery.htm

http://lighting.mbz.org/tech/relays/relays.html

Excerpt: In many cases, the thin factory wires are inadequate even for the stock headlamp equipment. Headlamp bulb light output is severely compromised with decreased voltage. For example, normal engine-running voltage in a "12-volt" automotive electrical system is around 13.5 volts. At this voltage, halogen headlamp bulbs achieve 100 percent of their design luminous output. When operating voltage drops to 95 percent (12.825v), headlamp bulbs produce only 83 percent of their rated light output. When voltage drops to 90 percent (12.15v), bulb output is only 67 percent of what it should be. And when voltage drops to 85 percent (11.475v), bulb output is a paltry 53 percent of normal! [Source: Hella KG Hueck AG, Germany]. It is much more common than you might think for factory headlamp wiring/switch setups to produce this kind of voltage drop, especially once they're no longer brand new and the connections have accumulated some corrosion and dirt.

Go start your car, turn on high beams, and measure the voltage AT THE BULBS with a digital VOM. You'll be surprised what you see...