Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 01-14-2003, 11:31 AM
mplafleur's Avatar
User Friendly
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Lathrup Village, Michigan
Posts: 2,939
Since I can go from a long delay, almost like a slip at 60 deg, but a crisp shift at 61 deg; I can asume that the temp switch is working. I guess there is a problem in the line that is switched in at temps under 60 deg. I would need to locate that temperature controlled vacuum switch and determine which line that is. I've only found a 25 deg C vacuum switch for the EGR system so far...

Now, what would cause the delay, too much vacuum, or too little?

__________________
Michael LaFleur

'05 E320 CDI - 86,000 miles
'86 300SDL - 360,000 miles
'85 300SD - 150,000 miles (sold)
'89 190D - 120,000 miles (sold)
'85 300SD - 317,000 miles (sold)
'98 ML320 - 270,000 miles (sold)
'75 300D - 170,000 miles (sold)
'83 Harley Davidson FLTC (Broken again) :-(
'61 Plymouth Valiant - 60k mikes
2004 Papillon (Oliver)
2005 Tzitzu (Griffon)
2009 Welsh Corgi (Buba)

Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-15-2003, 12:16 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Evansville, Indiana
Posts: 8,150
Michael:

Too much vac will make it shift sloppy. Too little make is shift too hard.

You may have a missing restriction orifice somwhere in the cold shift line -- I know there are several in the 603 system, and if one got left out somehow, it will cause excess vac.

The system will be operated by the computer via a switchover valve like the one for the boost protection (or the climate controls). This is a rectangular box with two vac lines, a plastic cap on top, and a two wire electrical plug on the bottom.

Peter
__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-15-2003, 12:57 PM
mplafleur's Avatar
User Friendly
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Lathrup Village, Michigan
Posts: 2,939
I'll try to get a tee into that line and check that vacuum. I'll also look for that restrictor. (They call it a damper).

Thanks Peter.
__________________
Michael LaFleur

'05 E320 CDI - 86,000 miles
'86 300SDL - 360,000 miles
'85 300SD - 150,000 miles (sold)
'89 190D - 120,000 miles (sold)
'85 300SD - 317,000 miles (sold)
'98 ML320 - 270,000 miles (sold)
'75 300D - 170,000 miles (sold)
'83 Harley Davidson FLTC (Broken again) :-(
'61 Plymouth Valiant - 60k mikes
2004 Papillon (Oliver)
2005 Tzitzu (Griffon)
2009 Welsh Corgi (Buba)

Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-18-2003, 06:21 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 200
To all,

I've started working on this issue finally, even with the cold weather up here. Once I got the car home, I noticed a lack of pickup when cold, especially going uphill. The shift problem persisted. New fuel filters solved the lack of pickup problem. I believe the car had been a garage queen for the previous year or so.
On the shifting, I found the Bowden cable and tightened it a turn or so. It's made a difference in a good way, but the problem is not completely solved. I'm going to turn it clockwise another half turn or so when I go out the next time and see if I can tune it in that way.
If this solves the problem, thanks for the info. Actually, thanks anyway. I have learned much from this forum that has allowed me to confidently look for these great diesel cars and have some real quality in the driveway. My son is really looking forward to being able to drive my old car, the 82 300SD, to school. He just calls it "the Benz".

- Ted
__________________
1987 300SDL 265,000 mi.
1982 300SD 325,000 mi. (and holding)
1956 Packard Clipper 150,000 mi.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-19-2003, 01:09 PM
sixto's Avatar
smoke gets in your eyes
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Eastern TN
Posts: 20,841
There's another transmission adjustment on the 603. The vacuum controller on the IP can be turned CW and CCW. There's a bolt above and a bolt below that you loosen to allow it to turn. I don't fully understand the manual -- it says to turn it CW with the engine running and the some lever against the full load stop until vacuum reads 0.

Mine is at max CW and I still see 3-4"Hg when I floor the pedal while driving the car. I hope the vacuum controller is available separately.

Sixto
91 300SE
87 300SDL
83 300SD
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 01-19-2003, 04:25 PM
Peyton300TD's Avatar
S124 owner
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Marina Del Rey, CA
Posts: 1,072
hey ted, this is unrelated to your questions

congrats on your new car we'd love to see pictures, old and new.

is your last name starr?

im eric starr
__________________
1995 E320 Sportline Wagon "Bernard"
black on black leather

http://i.imgur.com/BdZ7jM3.png
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 01-19-2003, 09:13 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 200
Eric,

Yes, I noticed earlier the similarity in last names. My last name is Starr, living in Maryland right now, but originally from Tampa. GO BUCS!!!!!

The car was on e-bay, so here's the link to the car.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6330&item=1876487980&rd=1

The idiot lights going off were easy. Low coolant in the recovery tank solved one. Replacing a couple of side marker lights solved the other one. It needs at least a couple of glow plugs, but doesn't start all THAT badly as it is since I've been driving it more.

I ended up buying the car for $4K, I think to some extent based on the transmission issues. My wife gave it 2 thums up and a finger snap after getting a ride in it yesterday. If I can get the transmission shifting normally with just adjustments, it's a stone cold bargain.

- Ted
__________________
1987 300SDL 265,000 mi.
1982 300SD 325,000 mi. (and holding)
1956 Packard Clipper 150,000 mi.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 08-15-2003, 10:28 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 200
I had this problem licked for a while, but now we're back to having worse troubles. The transmission absolutely refuses to shift into high, and it's pretty flaky in lower gears. I've done the following:

1) Checked the vacuum going over to the right side of the engine and it isn't holding vacuum.
2) Tried to pull vacuum on the vacuum amplifier. It held it on the VAC nipple, but not on the TRA nipple. Is that the way it's supposed to be? This is the nipple that goes to the black line to the transmission, so I would think it would need to hold vacuum. True/false?


I plan to replace the rubber over on the right side. I was going to do that anyway, but if the vacuum amplifier won't even hold vacuum, wouldn't that indicate a problem as well?

Thanks for any help.

- Ted
__________________
1987 300SDL 265,000 mi.
1982 300SD 325,000 mi. (and holding)
1956 Packard Clipper 150,000 mi.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 08-15-2003, 07:18 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Evansville, Indiana
Posts: 8,150
Which way are you testing -- the nipple on the vac amplifier or the hose to the tranny?

I'd not actually expect the vac amplifier to hold a vac unless you plug the signal lines to it, it is only modifiying vac from anther source, and one of those is a controlled leak!

The line to the tranny MUST hold vac -- if not, then your shifting problems are partally if not completely a bad line or leaking modulator.

Peter
__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 08-15-2003, 08:30 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 200
I was actually checking the nipple on the vacuum amplifier (blue thing) marked TRA. THe line to the transmission does hold vacuum. I just pulled everything out on the right side and replaced rubber, then checked vacuum over there with anything coming over to the left side of the engine plugged. It held.

So, in the morning, I'm going to concentrate on the lines around the vac amplifier. Anything other insight greatly appreciated. Thanks!

- Ted
__________________
1987 300SDL 265,000 mi.
1982 300SD 325,000 mi. (and holding)
1956 Packard Clipper 150,000 mi.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 08-15-2003, 08:47 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Evansville, Indiana
Posts: 8,150
Ted:

Plan on replacing all the rubber parts of the vac lines, they are all shot.

Also, check to make sure the vac actuators for the EGR and air recirc valve hold vac -- they are the two branches from the 5-way "t" at the front of the engine that go to the passenger side. If they leak (both of mine did), you won't have adequate vac for climate control OR transmission!

I just plugged mine, til I get $120 free for replacements.

Peter
__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 08-15-2003, 08:53 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 200
Peter,

I think I'm OK on the right side. I pulled everything out of there and replaced what rubber I could. There were a couple of very wide "Y" type of hoses that I didn't have, so I left them. But there were 2 actuators (I believe) in there that I pulled out, capped off hoses to them, and pulled vacuum. They both held. THen I put everything back together and capped off 2 of the 3 lines going over there - the 2 lines you mentioned, then there was a big black line coming from/going to the left firewall. I capped 2, pulled a vacuum on the other, and it held.

So, I checked vacuum to the tranny, to the door lock area, and they both check. THere's a line going to the ALDA (I think that's what it is...) and it checks out. The only place I haven't been able to pull a vacuum is on that nipple. I guess we'll see. I went ahead and ordered a replacement vac amplifier. If that isn't it I'll put the old one in my "I replaced it, but it's still good" bin.

- Ted
__________________
1987 300SDL 265,000 mi.
1982 300SD 325,000 mi. (and holding)
1956 Packard Clipper 150,000 mi.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 08-15-2003, 09:09 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Evansville, Indiana
Posts: 8,150
The controlled leak on the IP for the tranny control WON"T hold a vac, there is nothing wrong with the amplifier UNLESS you get the wrong vac signal to the tranny. If you have a MitiVac (highly recommended if you don't), start the car and see what vac you have on the tranny nipple on the vac amplifier -- should be on the order of 17" or so.

If less than 15", you need to find the leaks and fix them (usually the rubber connectors). Dont' forget to check the restriction in the hose from the vac pump at the big T up front, it can get plugged. DON"T take it out, the tranny will never shift correctly!

Vac on the tranny nipple should drop to 0 at wide opne throttle -- check while driving with a T or by using a separate vac source on the IP.

87 will have a separate electric pump for the door locks, they don't run off the engine pump. Climate control does, though, so if the AC won't blow out the center vents, you have low vac.

Peter
__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 08-15-2003, 09:14 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 200
Pete,

Thanks. I'll try those. I do have a Mity-Vac and I've been using it a bunch. I did replace that restrictor, along with the 5-way rubber fitting a couple of months ago. But checking that restrictor for plugging is a good idea. I did check the vacuum off that nipple and it was really low (5" or so). I have already replaced a bunch of the rubber in there. But I'm going to the parts place tomorrow and getting a liberal supply of the hose. I had a lot of problems with the rubber on my 82 SD as well, making me a believer in wholesale replacement of rubber.
But I AM going to get enough vacuum hose to bring the Mity-Vac into the car with me so I can really see what's going on. I'll let you know how it goes.

- Ted
__________________
1987 300SDL 265,000 mi.
1982 300SD 325,000 mi. (and holding)
1956 Packard Clipper 150,000 mi.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 08-16-2003, 11:05 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Evansville, Indiana
Posts: 8,150
Ted:

Check the vac on the 5-way T with the engine running -- you must have 17-21". If not, a plugged restrictor or bad vac pump!

Note that if one of the "legs" of the T has a big leak, you won't have vac anywhere. Pull the hard lines at the T and check each one individually (this is how I discovered the dead actuators).

Peter

__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2024 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page