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  #1  
Old 02-21-2003, 04:23 AM
spark-free since 2002
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Sarasota, FL
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my car won't start

At first, I thought I ran out of diesel, and I'm still not sure that that's not what happened. I was actually on my way to get a fillup, as I was running very low, and then the car kinda starts shaking a little, and while I was at a stop light, it died. It never died before. I tried starting it a couple of times, and it just won't fire the engine.

So I went and got 2 gallons of diesel in canister, put it in the gas tank, and the car still won't start. I tried turning it over maybe a dozen times. I tried holding the key turned for like a minute. I tried pumping the gas. I tried both. I tried putting diesel directly into the injector in case it needed some to start firing. Nothing worked.

At times, it seems like it would just almost get really close to starting to fire, but it just doesn't do it. Do you guys have any suggestions?

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  #2  
Old 02-21-2003, 05:04 AM
turbodiesel
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Did you prime the injection pump? There is a "knob" on the side you turn, it expands and you pump it.

After changing my fuel filters I have to crank my car for a good 60 seconds before it will turn over.. but I have a self-priming IP.
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  #3  
Old 02-21-2003, 08:27 AM
engatwork's Avatar
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Sounds like you need to loosen the injector supply lines at the injectors and crank/pump/repeat until you get fuel coming out of at least one or two lines. It is kind of a pia type operation but it is straight forward.
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Old 02-21-2003, 10:07 AM
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Ok, I got it working.

I primed it with the primer pump, about 10 times, then tried to crank it. Nothing. Primed it another 10 times, and then tried to crank it, but this time I floored the gas pedal and I just kept it cranking and after about a minute it finally fired. Thanks for helping me out guys. I had no idea something like this happens when you run out of diesel, nor that you could crank it for that long without anything going wrong. On a gas car, the battery would've drained a long time ago, trying to crank it that many times and for that long. After I got it started, I guess there was so much fuel in the engine, that for about a mile, whenever I stepped on the gas white smoke would come out of the back.
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  #5  
Old 02-21-2003, 10:53 AM
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Re: my car won't start

Quote:
Originally posted by jivadent
I tried putting diesel directly into the injector in case it needed some to start firing. Nothing worked.
Can you explain that part a little further? It may have something to do with the white smoke. I'm assuming your poured Diesel fuel into the intake. Please tell me that's not what you did.
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  #6  
Old 02-21-2003, 11:24 AM
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Rick,

I took the air filter off, and poured diesel in there. I could be wrong, but at least in gas cars that works.
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  #7  
Old 02-21-2003, 11:48 AM
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NEVER DO THAT!

You found out that it won't work on a Diesel. And if you do it on a gasoline engine, you're just asking for a fire. Go here to find out how a Diesel engine works and you'll understand.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/diesel.htm


Somebody who knows these engines better than me, please chime in. Did he do any damage?
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  #8  
Old 02-21-2003, 01:22 PM
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actually, it doesn't seem that different. The diesel is injected into the engine, just like in a gas engine (except that it's direct, not through a port), so if you add fuel directly it should do the same thing and find it's way into the cylinder, which is what I wanted. When I did that I was testing out the theory that the engine wasn't getting diesel for some reason, and that's why it wouldn't fire. But when it didn't fire even after i knew it had diesel, then I knew it was something else. Funny that the "something else" was that I didn't keep the car cranking long enough.
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  #9  
Old 02-21-2003, 07:17 PM
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It was more likely the pumping on the hand pump that did it for you.
Cranking for a minute or more is not good on your starter. The battery is big in these cars because when starting you are powering glow plugs and a starter that has to run a motor with compression that is much higher than a gas engine.

Sometimes they will self prime but the odds of this working are not real good.

Moral: Don't run out of fuel...
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  #10  
Old 02-21-2003, 09:36 PM
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jivadent,

Consider yourself lucky. Diesel fuel is very different from gasoline, and while there is a risk of fire by pouring gasoline into the intake manifold, there is risk of ruining the engine with Diesel. Diesel fuel will not evaporate and you run a good chance of filling a significant portion of the cylinder volume with liquid if you pour any in the intake manifold. The result is a bent rod, cracked piston, cracked head, broken crankshaft, etc, all really bad.

This is because liquid Diesel fuel is essentially incompressible, like water. Pouring Diesel into the manifold and sending liquid on its way to the cylinder, cranking the engine over, and having the car start is about the worst set of circumstances you can create. If your battery is weak it is feasible the starter will stall before you break anything. In any case it sounds like yours did not start when you did this so it is possible, even likely, you did not do any serious damage.

Since Diesel will not evaporate in the manifold and get into a condition where it will burn in the cylinder (liquid Diesel in a puddle is not easy to light) there are no carburetors for Diesels. Diesels require an injector that atomizes the fuel as it is introduced to the hot, compressed gas in the cylinder. This gets heat and Oxygen to the greatest possible number of fuel molecules, making the likelihood of ignition increase to 100%. A worn or dirty injector will not effectively atomize the fuel, and you get poor combustion characteristics ("nailing" is a common auditory signal, while increased smoking and poor starting and acceleration visual and seat of the pants indications) or even no combustion in cold weather starting.

Take care of your Diesel and it will pay you back with years and years of reliable service. Most of the idosyncracies are well known and accepted by the crowd on this forum, so ask whenever you are not clear on something. Good luck, and enjoy! Jim
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  #11  
Old 02-21-2003, 10:12 PM
spark-free since 2002
 
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Thanks Jim, and everyone else : ) I haven't owned a diesel for long, so I'm very appreciative of all the help.
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'84 300SD 210k - totalled
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  #12  
Old 02-21-2003, 11:54 PM
MBwerker
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Using primer pump to purge air

You can significantly reduce the time needed to purge air from the injectors if you remove the steel plug from the final injector return line. Then just pump the primer until you see a continous stream of fuel coming from the little line. I can change both fuel filters and clean the injectors and using this technique the engine will start on the first crank. I have tried letting the fuel return lines purge the air but it usually takes a lot of pumping and 20-30 seconds of engine cranking.

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