why doesn't everyone drive diesels? - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Dana B. · #31 02-24-2003, 12:55 PM

I worked from 1975 through 1978 as a lot boy, detail man and general chauffer for Mercedes Benz. Fell in love with the cars. Drove 'em all, including 6.3s, 300SLs, and the all-new w115 300D.

So when I had the opportunity to acquire my late grandfather's 300D 2.5Turbo a few years ago, I was thrilled.

Unfortunately, Mercedes Benz ownership has cost me a small fortune _ and I'm now facing a second rebuild, at around $6,000 (a new crank, FYI, is $2,500), the result of the belly pan and oil cooler falling out of the car. These cars are not for the faint of heart, or paltry of purse. I'm embarrassed to say how much money I've spent _ and will spend _ on this machine

My last vehicle was an '85 Mitsu. pickup gasser. Drove it 15 years, put 270K on the engine and never removed the head. Sold it to a guy named Moose, and he drove it 30K before it blew up.

I have two diesels, a VW and an MB. I like the rumble. I like the torque. I like the "economy."

Don't mean to be a downer. But if you want reliability, if you want longevity, if you want a wide range of competent American mechanics, my vote goes to a gasser for anyone who isn't a keen DIYer.

mikemover · #32 02-24-2003, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dana B.
I worked from 1975 through 1978 as a lot boy, detail man and general chauffer for Mercedes Benz. Fell in love with the cars. Drove 'em all, including 6.3s, 300SLs, and the all-new w115 300D.

So when I had the opportunity to acquire my late grandfather's 300D 2.5Turbo a few years ago, I was thrilled.

Unfortunately, Mercedes Benz ownership has cost me a small fortune _ and I'm now facing a second rebuild, at around $6,000 (a new crank, FYI, is $2,500), the result of the belly pan and oil cooler falling out of the car. These cars are not for the faint of heart, or paltry of purse. I'm embarrassed to say how much money I've spent _ and will spend _ on this machine

My last vehicle was an '85 Mitsu. pickup gasser. Drove it 15 years, put 270K on the engine and never removed the head. Sold it to a guy named Moose, and he drove it 30K before it blew up.

I have two diesels, a VW and an MB. I like the rumble. I like the torque. I like the "economy."

Don't mean to be a downer. But if you want reliability, if you want longevity, if you want a wide range of competent American mechanics, my vote goes to a gasser for anyone who isn't a keen DIYer.

That's some impressive mileage from that Mitsu pickup! There are exceptions to every rule.

Sorry to hear about your bad experience with the 300D.

Mike

Richard Eldridge · #33 02-24-2003, 01:57 PM

The way I understand it, a Diesel will outlast a gas engine because (1) when gas burns, it forms carbon, which is hard and scratches the cylinder walls, eventually causing oil to blow by into the spark plugs, which then foul out, (2) Diesel fuel , unlike gasoline, is an oil and (unlike gasoline) has some lubricity, so when you shut off a gas engine, the oil washes off the cylinder walls, which causes piston ring and cylinder wear, and (3) Diesels are made with a very high compression ratio, which means they need to be built extra-strong (unlike the GM POS converted engine). I wonder if the guy who designed this was the same guy who designed the infamous aluminum-block Chevy Vega engine.
The original plan was to make it with steel sleeves, but they had to compete with the (ugh) Pinto.

On the other hand, I have a friend with a trusty 1992 Nissan Sentra E with a 1.5 litre engine that has gone 330,000 miles so far and gets around 36 mpg. He commutes 70 miles each way 4 or 5 days a week. He changes oil and filter every 3,000 and the thing refuses to burn any betweeen changes. It has a timing CHAIN instead of a stupid rubber belt, which ois also helpful to its longevity.

I have seen Hyundais in the U-Pick junkyard with over 300,000 miles on them that were obviously junked because they had been totalled. I have personally spent more on the engine of my 1990 300D (new Turbo and injector pump) then on any other gas car I have owned, and I tend to buy 5 or 6 years old cars and drive them as far as I can until rust do us part.

My personal best record was a 1977 Toyota Celica that I bought in 83 and drove until 1993, after putting 120K on it myself. It had as serious rust problem and it rained on my feet. It also smelled like mildew 6 months of the year, which was bad for my image.

On E-Bay I have seen a couple of BMW Diesels and a 1982 Lincoln with a BMW Diesel in it. A 1983 MB 300D wagon sold for over $2000 not too long ago with over 350,000 miles.

rickg · #34 02-24-2003, 02:26 PM

Funny to see someone refer to the Vega/Pinto era.

Off subject here, but my wife had a Pinto when we got married. POS!! But the engines were pretty tough. I put on a hi-lift cam with triple valve springs, a Holley 4-barrel carb/manifold set-up, a header and aftermarket electronic ignition. Ran like a bat out of you know where

But I spent more time trying to keep the rest of the car in one pice than I did driving it.
The Vega fiasco shouldn't have happened. I've heard of people actually getting lots of mile out of those engines, but they had to religously change oil/filter, and not ever over heat them.
I have my dad's '67 Ford pickup that he bought new, with 467,000 miles on the odometer. That's with the origional engine! Still runs fairly good, albeit with a burnt valve or two and low oil pressure. He religously changed ther oil/filter, and not with synth oil. Just good old Penzoil.
Diesels are the cats whiskers if they are driven properly and maintained, like anything else. I'm not really sure we have too much of a real good arguement FOR diesels over gas engines, other than what we've all pointed out here. Mostly I think it's more of a personal-preference type thing.

#35 02-24-2003, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Richard Eldridge
I have seen Hyundais in the U-Pick junkyard with over 300,000 miles on them that were obviously junked because they had been totalled.

I never knew that they could go for that many miles, from the build quality I figured that if one lasted for more than 150,000 miles, then its lasted longer than it should. I guess I should start looking at them differently if the engines can last 300,000 miles.

rickg · #36 02-24-2003, 02:40 PM

Just saw on a program on Discovery (or whatever channel it was) that Hyundi is one of the largest manufacturers of ship engines in the world. I mean those really, really big cruise ships, ect. If they can build those , they must be doing something right!

#37 02-24-2003, 02:45 PM

I saw that show on TLC last night, they might know how to build ships, but I am not sure about cars. I guess if they have figured out how to build a reliable drivetrain, then all they have to do is figure out how to improve the rest of the car. I guess Hyundai's are better than KIA's, which are total pieces of junk.

#38 02-24-2003, 03:22 PM

Hyundai's main problem was that they were immediately perceived as disposable cars due to their price. This lent them to being abused by most of their owners. Sad, IMO. My dad owned a Hyundai Excel, and got better service out of it than the Honda Accord that it replaced. Aside from a few niggling issues with buttons and the like, my departed Hyundai Sonata was one of the best vehicles that I've ever owned. My best friend bought an 89 Excel that had 30K on the odometer. He abused this car to no end, and the vast majority of its issues were directly related to this abuse. He put a new engine in that car at 120K just to know that it was fresh. The old one still didn't use a drop of oil between changes. Money thrown away IMO. He eventually sold that car to his roomate after moving down here to TX. That person ran the car out of oil, and we thought that it's poor running problems were related. I then bought the car, and went over it on my own. Found a plugged fuel filter and bad spark plug wires. Car back on the road and running fine. I sold it with amost 160K on the clock to a high school student. It's still on the road today.

Hyundai does build decent cars. Their owners just don't give them the TLC that they should, unlike us MB folks.

rickg · #39 02-24-2003, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 123c
I guess if they have figured out how to build a reliable drivetrain, then all they have to do is figure out how to improve the rest of the car.

Yeh, kind of like the Pinto we had. Good engine and trannie, bad everything else!

But I have heard good stories of Hyundi's not being a bad car, especially when you consider the price. But not sure I'm ready to run out and join the throngs!!

Richard Eldridge · #40 02-24-2003, 04:31 PM

I bought a 1989 Hyundai Excel from a colleague who bought it new. It had been smacked at a stoplight into another car and left for dead. One of my friends resurrected it and got it a rebuilt title. My friend, who bought it new for $4950, sold it to me in need of a carb overhaul and a couple of bumpers for $250. I needed a car and figured that if it lasted two weeks so I could get another good used car, it would have paid its way. That was in 1996, when it had 86K.

It has served me well as a spare car, and cost about another $1,000. I have fixed the CV joints, put in three batteries (used), a set of brakes, two mufflers, a rebuilt carb and an alternator (and a cable, which caused the charging problem), as well as replacing icky little plastic parts a set of seat covers.

It is a hatchback, and the back seat folds down, so I have used it as a sort of mini-truck.

The engine is a 1.5 L Mitsubishi, perhaps made in Korea, perhaps in Japan.

Unfortunately, an axle seal leaked out tranny oil and now it refuses to exceed 55 mph. I refilled it with Mobil 1 gear oil, but it was too late. A new used 4-speed transmission would cost $300 installed at a minimum and I really doubt that anyone would pay me over $400 for the little darling, even though it looks pretty good. It has no rust at all, which indicates a good design. I suspect that I will remove my ooga horn and back-up thingie that plays "Oh Susanna" and sell it cheap or donate it and take it off this year's taxes, as I am planning to buy an 85 Mercedes 300D wagon to replace the Hyundai. 7 years and 18,000 miles are easily worth the $1250 I have in it.

Anyone interested can reach me at [email]woebagger@yahoo.com. It is red and looks lots faster than it is.

The Hyundai Excel was a good design so far as the body goes, but the engine and tranny are weaknesses. The 94 Scoupe which a friend has is far faster and smoother riding, so these are improving. The new 3000XG is really elegant and one imagines, a poor man's Mercedes. Or perhaps a poor man's Infiniti or Millennia.

It was a far better car than a 1984 Nissan 200SX, which broke down a whole lot and needed really expensive parts, and eventually caught fire and became unfixable.

rickg · #41 02-24-2003, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Richard Eldridge
and eventually caught fire and became unfixable.

lol! So that's how you put an end to rice burners!

#42 02-24-2003, 05:35 PM

Yum, Fried Rice.

But getting to what I was going to say, a lot of the auto manufactures are getting their acts together, and building stuff that will last. Even Detriot is getting into this act.

Rick Miley · #43 02-25-2003, 10:43 AM

I'm a little late to this party, but want to mention something else relating to the original question. Some people don't drive Diesels because of the smell of the fuel itself. One friend of mine couldn't believe that I bought the E300 and he went on and on about how my hands would always smell like Diesel fuel. I thought that was a stupid argument, but he persisted.

While I'm here, a couple more points. My parents bought one of the Oldsmobile Diesels new back in 1982 and it was a disaster. Ended with a broken crankshaft. Dad paid $2600 for a replacement gas engine and immediately sold the car for $2000. Yet, surprisingly, they don't blame GM. They still drive nothing but GM products to this day. They think the Diesel engine is inherently bad, and I'm sure they can't be the only people who think this way.

Regarding the comparison between gas and Diesel engines, most of the stuff on this thread was not a fair comparison. If you compare a Mercedes gas engine to a similar sized Mercedes Diesel engine, the Diesel comes out way ahead. Every Mercedes gasser since the mid 80's has required premium fuel. So when you compare fuel prices you can't compare Diesel against regular unleaded. Then there is the MPG issue. My E300 is rated at 27/36 while the E320 gasser of the same year is rated at 21/30. My car has 174 HP and accelerates to 60 in 8.5 seconds while the E320 has 221 HP and a 7.1 second 0-60 time. That's about as close a comparison as you can get. Factor in the $4000 lower purchase price for the Diesel and a clear winner emerges.

mikemover · #44 02-25-2003, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rick Miley
I'm a little late to this party, but want to mention something else relating to the original question. Some people don't drive Diesels because of the smell of the fuel itself. One friend of mine couldn't believe that I bought the E300 and he went on and on about how my hands would always smell like Diesel fuel. I thought that was a stupid argument, but he persisted.

I hear that argument from time to time, but I don't get it...I think diesel smells LESS offensive than gasoline! And it's certainly less dangerous--gasoline explodes easily, while diesel is hard to ignite.

Mike

Rick Miley · #45 02-25-2003, 11:09 AM

I agree Mike. But since Diesel is less volatile than gasoline, there is a greater chance that the pump handle is a mess and that you will get it on your hands. And once you do get it on your hands, it is harder to remove. Never bothered me, though.