Diesel 123 vs Toyota/Honda 4 cyl...which would you buy?
 

Hello!

My mom's '94 Pontiac Grand Prix is on its last legs. I just found out that two tires need to be replaced, and also that the car needs to be smogged soon and will likely not pass. She needs a car that can last another 4 or 5 years without becoming a serious financial burden. It needs to be an automatic :( and has to get good fuel mileage. "Class" is not a real consideration here.

She's voiced that she wants a compact Japanese 4 cylinder car, but I think a 123 would be a better choice; AFAIK they get roughly the same fuel mileage, diesel's cheaper than 87 gas by a fair margin, and as we all know, these engines are just about indestructible. :) She has said that she can tolerate driving my car, but would prefer more power, so I don't think she'd even jokingly consider a 240D or even a 300D n/a, so if she went the Benz route, I'm under the assumption that a turbo 300D's the only real option here. I don't know how much she's willing or able to spend, but can anyone give a good argument either way? She originally wanted to buy a new Jetta (circumstances won't allow that now), and at first she adamantly didn't want a diesel, but before the new car idea got scrapped, I think I had convinced her to seriously consider a TDi.

I would have posted this as a poll, but I plan on showing her this thread, and I'm sure she'll want to see the logic behind the reasoning.

Thanks in advance!

I have found that when it comes to women you need to get her what SHE wants. Not what you think she should have - just ask my wife:). I'm not too sure about a "compact". My personal recommendation would be a two or three year old Honda CRV. Pretty compact, good fuel mileage, Honda reliability and you can carry all kinds of stuff in it. Our experience owning one has been nothing but pleasant. I did the brakes on it this weekend at 125k miles and it still did not need new rotors but I went ahead and replaced them anyway. It does require a new timing belt at 110k miles.

I think a lot depends on her mindset. If she's a DIYer or you'll handle maintenance and repairs, no problem. If she's willing to establish a relationship with a good indy, no problem. If it's going to take an act of congress to keep her from taking it to Jiffy Lube for oil changes, then by all means she shouldn't get a 300D.

Does she drive in areas where Diesel fuel is available? It might be a tough sell if she has to go out of her way to refuel.

Sixto
91 300SE
87 300SDL
83 300SD

Thing there is, she doesn't want a sport utility...she specifically wants a 4 door sedan. In addition, I don't think she'll be able to go that new..probably not much newer than early '90's, and maybe not even that new (she's going back to school for a career change, so $$ is rather tight)....

I'll be handling maintenance and repairs wherever possible, which is IMHO another point in the 300D's direction; takes less specialized tools to work on, and are infinitely easier to work on. :) I've been doing all of the maintenance I've been capable of doing and/or have the tools for on the Pontiac, and have thrown many 4 letter words at it in the process. :D

In this area, finding diesel's not a serious problem...that was one of her initial concerns, but I think I've demonstrated that there are more diesel stations around than there appears to be. :)

There's also the price aspect. For under $5,000, you won't find a Honda or Toyota without a ton of miles, but you'll find a good 300D. If she's willing to spend $10,000, then a late model Honda or Toyota will probably be more appealing than a 20 year old Diesel even if it means an extra $5,000 in her purse. Of course that puts her in the range of a 602 or 603 Diesel with enough left over for a new head :)

Sixto
91 300SE
87 300SDL
83 300SD

This will get me blackballed, but I think that an early 90's Japanese car is a better choice. Repairs will be cheaper, operation is simpler, and I think reliability will be better. That having been said, I personally would go for the diesel, but then again, I care about cars. If I wanted something just for reliable, cheap transportation, I would go Japanese.

Alex

My grandmother has a 1993 Corolla and it's been spectacular. Granted, it only has 15K miles on it (if the Corollas ever become classics, we'll have the best one j/k), but it's had no problems and gets fantastic mileage. She gets the oil changed once a year with inspection.

Alex

Alex, what kinda mileage does the Corolla get?

Actually, on the power thing, I just remembered something...over last Christmas, I used my aunt's '94 Geo Prizm (basically a re-badged Corolla) as a parts runner for the axleshafts and whatnot for my car...and, although I don't know what kinda mileage it gets, I think that my 300D could actually out-accelerate it. The acceleration (or relative lack thereof, compared to her Grand Prix) of my car was my mom's big turn-off...maybe after driving a couple of Toyotas around, she'll appreciate the oilburner more. :D

Also, Alex, what makes you say that operation's simpler? Maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way, but I don't see how a computer-controlled fuel injected spark-ignition engine's simpler than a completely mechanical compression-ignition engine... :confused:

BTW, my grandmother has a '90 Corolla with less than 40K miles on it...probably it's because it's not driven much, but it's got a problem with carbon buildup in the cylinders or something similar, making it detonate whenever you apply throttle...I don't know if she's had any other problems with it, but again, it's a very low-mileage car...

I only borrowed my grandmother's car once for a long weekend, but it got 29 MPG with 70% city driving. The car is technically more complicated than a W123, but I think more mechanics would know what to do with it. It probably isn't a whole lot faster than my 300D turbo, but it sure is smoother. I'm not saying that you should get a Corolla, it was just an example. If I were going to get a car like that, I'd probably go with a Honda. More efficient, more fun to drive, better economy, better reliability (probably). Good luck.

Alex

If crash safety is an issue (and it probably should be), then I think the bigger car is better. Mercedes has always been ahead of it's time in terms of safety. I know with carfax you can get a vehicle safety report. There is also this link, to the difference between large and small cars in crashes: http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/regrev/evaluate/808570.html
That said, unless you convince your mother whole heartedly that she wants an MB diesel, you run the risk of it being 'all your fault' if anything goes wrong. Nothing worse than Mom's, "I told you so"s. Believe me, I know. :rolleyes:

A 1990-1994 Subaru Legacy would be a great car. They get great gas milage, and most of them are AWD. Most are under $5,000 and should run a long time. They are easy to work on, and parts aren't that expensive. The only major problem with these cars can be the Automatic transmissions.
My brother's 1990 has been a great car, and he has 185,000 miles. In the last week or so he has been having some engine problems, but I think it might be due to him driving it VERY hard all the time. Other than that, it has needed very little.

Another good car is the Infiniti G20. Early models can be found relatively cheap. They are good handling cars and get good fuel economy.

The power of a turbo 300D is nice, but you MUST keep in mind that even though it LOOKS just like a 240D, it is NOT the simple easy to maintain car that the 240D is.

Good luck,

Larry, you're right in that a 616 is easier to maintain than a 617, but I would take a 617 over any FWD car as far as ease of maintenance goes.

It's a moot point, though; I decided that I probably shouldn't be helping her with this...it seems pretty clear to me what she wants and that she's firm on that, and to be honest, I'm very unhappy with it for personal reasons that I probably shouldn't go into, and I'm thinking at this point that any attempt to change her mind will just make us both angry at each other...so I think the prudent course at this point is to stay away.

Thanks to all for your comments...

If memory serves, the 90 Corolla with the 4AF engine has a carb. Modern fuel injected engines typically don't have build-up and fouling problems to the extent carburetted engines do under low use, low speed conditions.

Sixto
91 300SE
87 300SDL
83 300SD