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  #1  
Old 06-14-2004, 05:30 PM
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got my cooling parts---> doing the flush

but i got one question...

i've been doing massive forum searching on the best approach to flushing out my 300D 78 benzo. many people in previous posts states to just remove the T.stat from the housing and run a cold water garden hose in that sucker while the drain cocks on the radiator is off. --> this will remove all ofthe old "green" coolant in this car which i have read that is terrible for these 300D engines.

Sounds like a good plan but someone else stated in these forums to "get the most out of a flush"

1. add citric acid detergent cleaner (prestone stuff) in the radiator before flushing and drive it hard for a good 6 hours to remove all rusts from either radiator and engine.
2. drain radiator of all green coolant and remove T.stat and stick garden hose up in there with the drain plugs out of the radiator.

3. run engine with garden hose in T.stat housing until green coolant is gone from the radiator or until water is clear from T.stat housing. recommend removing the engine drain block plugs when this is going on still.

4. refill the radiator with MB Orange stuff with Water wetter. ---> preferably with 1 gall of MB orange in radiator and top it off with distilled water!

what do you guys think of this procedure??...

also...where are these drain engine plugs at?...i've flushed before but i never did remove the engine plugs before.


thanks for all the input
allen

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  #2  
Old 06-14-2004, 05:53 PM
moraine
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Before I read the procedure in the M-B factory manuals for flushing my 617 engines, I never would have guessed how many steps they specify that should be taken, the order, the time for the various tasks, etc. If you have access to the factory manuals, I would suggest going by them - M-B obviously had some very precise ideas in mind about this work.
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  #3  
Old 06-14-2004, 06:11 PM
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A few quick thoughts:
On my site (link below) there is a link to a online W123 manual, perhaps that'd give a little insight for any questions.

Yes flushing it is surely good. I think the garden hose idea is a little overkill or a fair chance of getting crap in the system. I drained the radiator, drained the block, filled with tap water, ran, drained radiator & block, filled with tap water & flush, ran for a week, fill & drain system again, and one last time, then filled it up with distilled water and antifreeze. Now, one thing I found out later which seems like Dr. Ritter himself said distilled water shouldn't be used with Mercedes coolant, I guess they figured on you using tap. If you do use distilled it can ionize in the system. What is mercedes orange? I thought the factory mercedes stuff is clear in a white bottle?!

What I'll probably use at my next coolant change, evans waterless coolant. No pressure => no leaks & no cavitation => no maintenance. It also never has to be changed, but is a good deal harder to install since the system has to be nearly free of water. Food for thought....
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  #4  
Old 06-14-2004, 06:34 PM
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Hope this helps...

This is copied from one of my earlier posts....

I just did this for the first time myself. Couldn't find the block drain on my own from above, but a Mercedes tech showed me where it was while on the lift. You can not see it from above, but if you touch and follow the copper pipe coming out of the bottom of the air filter housing, it will lead you to it. If you MUST do it from above without a lift or jacks, disconnect the intake pipe into the air filter housing (no tools needed) to give your arm some room. Also, be VERY careful NOT to lean on the overflow hose coming out of the radiator. I broke the nipple off from leaning on it for leverage and am having a heck of a time fixing it.

TECH TIP... the MB techs use SHOUT (that's right... the stuff from the grocery store) in a 1/1 or 1/3 mixture for internally degreasing the engine before using a descaler or flush chemical. Mercedes recommends a 10% citric acid (quite weak.. ie white vineger is 5% ascetic acid). They usually don't bother with the Shout unless they have replaced a head gasket or something, but you may want to do it at least once. MB in their manual says it is critical before doing a chemical flush or descaling. They refer to it as "de-oiling" the cooling system. Also, it is important to remove the thermostat in order to do a proper flush and rinse, but you must put the seal back in without the thermostat while flushing or it will leak there.

Do multiple flushes between each stage including running the engine up to temperature with the heater on full blast for 5 minutes or so.
After this procedure your engine will smell sweet as your fresh laundry!!!

And finally, do yourself a favor and do an engine steam clean or degrease before you begin. It is really messy down there!

I'm sure this is more than you bargained for but I wanted to share my experience with you. Have fun!

Here's a thread on Shout for flushing...

SHOUT for coolent flush? MB recommended!
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  #5  
Old 06-14-2004, 09:38 PM
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sorry boostnbenz...

mercedes orange...refering to the color of the MB coolant found at the dealership, yes in the white bottle that sells for a good 10-12 bucks. its orange color compared to the good old green stuff we're used to seeing.

one question for you however...when you do flush your radiator... you flush out the old radiator coolant maybe 3 times with regular tap water and then you add your flush treatment stuff (acid stuff) with the water in there and drive it for about a week?....should you add 2 bottles of flush treatment just to get it concentrated enough to work..because there only water in that system from the previous flushings???..

also if you do do this, and you have overheating problems...wont boiling cause some serious cavitation in the engine if i were to drive it around town with just flush treatment and water in the system?....that coolant is responsible for lowering the boiling point of water so that cavitation doesnt happen...--> thus screwing up the block head and gaskets...


Mr. goodfarht and others....thanks for the replies..i will definetly try out the shout stuff before descaling or adding citric acid to the radiator
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  #6  
Old 06-15-2004, 01:48 PM
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Hmm are you sure that is the right stuff? Maybe it doesn't matter but the stuff originally put into our MBs is in a white bottle and is perfectly clear in color. The lubricity properties of it is very nice but unfortunately any slight leaks make a white gunk that looks like corrosion on a battery.

Well the directions on the flush I used (Zerex?) said to drive 300-500 miles and to be certain not to have antifreeze in with it. So I drained it and completely flushed it once, then filled it and ran the flush fluid into it. For me it turned out to be about a week's worth of driving, so I was just really careful keeping the temperature below 90*C. If I recall correctly I had a thermostat that was stuck open back then so it wasn't much of a problem. Cavitation is a long term problem caused by both the boiling and the difference in temperatures, so in the sense of different temperatures water would be better against it but for boiling it isn't. However if the temperature went a little over 100*C in the system hoses and other components will blow as the water will be boiling a little over.

Before doing the flush I seen rust and crap in the head, almost made me feel sick, weeks later I looked again and the insidie of the head was as clean as a whistle (the stuff that came out with the flush looked BAD).
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  #7  
Old 06-22-2004, 04:50 PM
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Just poped the thermo on my wifes '83 and it was a mess. It still functions just fine.. but the rubber gasket was pretty much gone. The entire track that it sits in was filled with crud that was quite difficult to remove.. So the big question is should I use a flush? At this stage I'm concerned that flushes with anything other than water might knock something loose and plug up the radiator.

FYI I was chaging the thermo due to the fact that the operating temp of the motor was hanging around 60C and that was only after about 30 minutes at speed.

Is it possible that this scaling was just due to the fact that the system must have leaked there at some point? Perhaps it was actually stop leak or something like that?

Also any thoughts about Prestone Extended Life 5/150? It claims to be Dex-Cool compliant and made for cars with Alum radiators.
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  #8  
Old 06-22-2004, 05:03 PM
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The Zerex G-05 is the same stuff as the orange MB stuff. Made by the same manufacturer.

You can get it at Autozone for half the price the stealership will charge.
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  #9  
Old 10-19-2004, 03:57 PM
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How do you know when an acid flush is needed?

I am about to replace the coolant in my 1985 300D. I bought the car last year and have no idea whether the system has ever been de-oiled or flushed with an citric acid solution. The car has no problem maintaining a proper temperature.

Should I assume that the system needs the de-oiling and citric acid flushing? Or can I just flush with water and fill with MB coolant?
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  #10  
Old 10-19-2004, 04:07 PM
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I'd be careful using the citric acid treatment. I have a lot of experience using it in the lab. I've made my mistakes. 10% solution is plenty strong. I also don't feel comfortable leaving it in the system for a week. That's a good way to perforate healthy metal. What do the instructions tell you to do?

I also wouldn't recommend the acid treatment UNLESS there is a strong suspicion that the cooling system has a lot of scale, rust, or solid deposits. And if you do use it, I would recommend following up with a neutralizer. Just using regular soap in the coolant as a final flush would help neutralize the residual acid.
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  #11  
Old 10-19-2004, 05:33 PM
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Why not green?

My car ['85 300td] has a cast iron head and I can see no reason why the green can't be used. I think the "orange" MB stuff is just the environmentally safe stuff and that is the only difference.

At least thats what my local MB shop tells me. What do you guys think??? The shop disagrees with a lot of other stuff we do/discuss on this forum.

Cheers,

Bill
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  #12  
Old 10-19-2004, 06:07 PM
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There are some dissimilar metals in the 123's. like the water pump is mounted to the aluminum housing, corrosion can occur there, and there are steel pipes that carry coolant into the heater.
I believe the MB solution has been tested and has the right additives to reduce corrosion in these cars.
Granted there are certainly some equivalent solutions available, I heard Peak antifreeze is similar to MB mix, but for $10 or so I'll buy the MB stuff and call it cheap insurance.
Changing fluids regularly is necessary regardless of what brand you use.
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  #13  
Old 10-19-2004, 06:34 PM
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Boostnbenz MB coolant looks very light orange in the bottle but it is almost clear. I would say a light orangish yellow.

btw the new ones come with blue coolant.

MB coolant protects plastic better then the green stuff does, last time I checked radiators were $200 for D/SD's.
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  #14  
Old 10-20-2004, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill murrow
My car ['85 300td] has a cast iron head and I can see no reason why the green can't be used. I think the "orange" MB stuff is just the environmentally safe stuff and that is the only difference....
Your MB shop is mistaken. The MB antifreeze is not environmentally safe, only propylene glycol is. MB antifreeze is not propylene glycol. Like most antifreezes, it's made of etylene glycol.

More than the head material is considered when choosing the proper antifreeze formulation. You have to consider the radiator, heater core, and rubber hoses. Some have reported that using the wrong antifreeze can be hard on the hoses.
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  #15  
Old 10-20-2004, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestas
Your MB shop is mistaken. The MB antifreeze is not environmentally safe, only propylene glycol is. MB antifreeze is not propylene glycol. Like most antifreezes, it's made of etylene glycol.

More than the head material is considered when choosing the proper antifreeze formulation. You have to consider the radiator, heater core, and rubber hoses. Some have reported that using the wrong antifreeze can be hard on the hoses.
I'm going to be changing mine soon. My car came with the green stuff already in it but I will change it out to MB brand.

My local Mb repair shop is owned by a guy thats been working on MBs since the sixties. Seems quite to know these cars well. He said he's been using green in all the 123s with no ill effects. Like I said, there are a lot of other things he disagrees with as well. Man, I'm confused
Don't know who to believe...but I won't take chances with my coolant! If I use the MB stuff, I can't go wrong. Or can I???

Cheers,

Bill

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