Greasel or Greasecar.com? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

DieselHead · #1 05-01-2003, 01:22 PM

Hi,
I've been reading up fuel systems and it sounds like a really interesting project. Has anyone here had any experience with either the Greasel system, or the kit bought on greasecar.com? For $500 or so, give or take, it sounds like something I might be interested in taking a stab at. thanks.

Alex

bjcsc · #2 05-01-2003, 03:43 PM

I'm curious, too. One of my employees just bought a 1986 Chevy 6.2L diesel. We're thinking about going together on some kind of WVO setup.

rwthomas1 · #3 05-01-2003, 08:40 PM

The problem I have with these systems is they don't return fuel to the tank. They require you to run the IP return line back into the feed line. This makes bleeding air a PITA. All it would take is a 6-port valve and an extra return line. The added benefit is the returned WVO would be hot so it could aid in the heating of the feed line and the WVO tank. The kits are not as sophisticated as I would like to see. Fuel quality is likely the single most important thing to a diesel, if I were considering a WVO system I would want it to function like the IP designers intended. The additional cost of doing it my way would be very minimal yet none of them do. RT

coachgeo · #4 05-01-2003, 10:22 PM

"I would want it to function like the IP designers intended" doesnt hold up to scrutiny. If you did then u could ONLY use diesel .... You could not run any WVO and still stay in the parameters of what the IP designer’s intended using your rule.

They built their system with the parameters of design calling for diesel not WVO. I would bet good money that with WVO as a parameter then they would design them differently.

Also, "none of them do it" (return WVO fuel to tank instead of Looping.) That’s a misconception for sure. Maybe none of the "kits" but a whole lot folk return WVO to the WVO tank just for the reason you suggest. It's easier to deal with air. The ones who loop...... they do so to ease the stress on the injection pumps fuel lift. Also, I assume the "kit" manufacturer are covering their butts so they cant be sued for helping to create an IP failure in a customers car due to their kit putting to much stress on the IP pump.

Many folk do return to their veg tanks. Then there are others who loop just cause the kits do.. while others loop out of educated necessity cause they understand that with the type of IP's they have on their engine they know they need looping and/or an additional electric lift pump to reduce the stress on the IP from pumping more viscous fuel. This is an area (to loop or not to loop) I’m still unclear on from my studies. I would do a search on the subject to get more info.

As to "kits" I like Greasels 3in1 hose. I would do some kit bashing and use the Greasel 3in1 hose, and the system from Neotric of Canada This is how I would do it, if I was doing it with a kit. I'm planning to design my own hair brained experimental design.

Best site IMHO for info and discussion is Biofuels BB but I am partial to bulletin boards over Mail list..

rwthomas1 · #5 05-02-2003, 12:17 AM

Okay, let me rephrase that: None of the kits I have seen return the WVO to the tank. Maybe the homebrewed systems do this but I have yet to see it. Doesn't mean it ain't done tho... I inquired at Greasel about a 4-in-1 hose to do a return and they never answered me. Regarding fuel type, all bets are off once you start using WVO anyway so I doubt anyone would be able to successfully sue. These kits are shadetree engineered anyway, the makers don't have enough money to bother sueing them if you were so inclined. I am not so concerned about the additional stress on the pump as you aren't supposed to run WVO until the heat builds enough to make it pretty darn thin or less viscous. I was looking to convert my GM truck since when I tow for long distances the fuel savings could really pay off and I have a large bed to carry extra fuel. The problem is Stanadyne DB2 injection pumps have a device called an HPCA that functions as a "cold idle advance" This is nothing more than a solenoid that restricts fuel returning to the tank. When this happens something in the pump is actuated causing advanced engine timing to help the engine warm up. I don't know and no one I have asked can tell me if routing the return line into the feed will have the same result as actuating the HPCA. Running a little timing advance is fine during warmup but I don't want the thing actuated when I am pulling at maximum load. A little advanced timing is good. Too much is bad. I have asked the kit makers if this is an issue and they don't answer the emails. I have seen GMs converted to WVO but I don't know how this issue was resolved. Obviously this is a specific vehicle question and MBs seem to not have a problem with changing the line routing. I am cautious to change the GM as things go bad in a hurry when you have 2 tons strapped to the hitch and you are pulling a 7% grade. I don't want to get to that point to find out the timing advance is a problem. Sorry for the long post. RT

coachgeo · #6 05-02-2003, 02:03 AM

RWthomas1

here is a recent thread on the GM IP's

Its a bulletin board so ask away. Im sure you will get your answer you need.

mrbill240D · #7 05-02-2003, 08:24 PM

I Have a friend that bought the Greasel Kit and its pretty simple to make your own. You can add the 6 port valve and have the return lines that I believe would be a good idea also.
What I've been doing so far is mixing 50% WVO in with diesel when I fill up. I've been doing this for 2 months and no problems yet. Same power but less black smoke when under full throtle.
This way no extra tank or fuel lines to mess with and it saves ya 50% on fuel costs.

Mrbill

coachgeo · #8 05-02-2003, 08:49 PM

What's your Location Mr. Bill? Whats the Climate like?

I too plan to eventualy go this route. Im going to do a set up that will have heating in it to allow for various degrees of mixing according to the weather. Im going to go little overboard in the ability to heat the fuel incase my mix is not quit right and it wants to get too thick. Then I can heat it up and make it home just fine.

Once I find the right mixes for different seasons where Im going to be, I will considering going commercial with it, limited to that local cause I know its climate, but still commercial .

mrbill240D · #9 05-03-2003, 08:49 AM

I'm on the east coast of Florida. (Titusville) I don't believe that it gets cold enought here for me to worry about how much WVO I use. If you live up north then in the winter you would have to heat it a little or just use less WVO. I like the KISS method (KEEP IT SIMPLE). I made a heat exchanger for running 100% but never have installed it cause this way is just to simple.

mrbill240D

Fredmburgess · #10 05-03-2003, 04:42 PM

I'm running a home built kit similar to the Greasel setup (used one of their kits on my Golf the last time around). This is on an 84 300D turbo. Return line is in fact looped into the intake. I thought about running an extra return line (so both diesel and WVO would go back to their respective tanks) but this is working fine. If I have to bleed air it's no big deal. I just pull the return off, cover the exposed tee on the intake side with a finger, use the hand pump to pump air/fuel to ground). Only takes a second and isn't a frequent issue anyway. So far only once when I ran my WVO tank empty and got a bunch of air in the system. No biggie. The older style "hose within a hose" does a great job of heating the WVO...no need for extra help. Of course, the 617 engines are pretty forgiving. Now that morning temps are 50F and above, I switch to WVO right after startup without issue.

Single biggest issue with WVO - IMHO - is finding decent oil and filtering it well. After that, the car couldn't care less what you feed it.

..I also run about 25% in the diesel tank, with a shot of algaecide just to be safe. So far so good, and no more black smoke.

fmb

Q45Denver · #11 06-28-2003, 05:00 PM

If your thinking about doing this may want to check on this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6330&item=2421168830

danalinscott · #12 07-04-2003, 09:27 AM

I jut purchased a 1987 190DT for conversion to vegoil...actually waste fryer oil. I have converted quite a few different vehicles as well as tractors and generators and in the "alternative grease fuel" community Mercedes are rated high in their ability to easily deal with used and fresh vegoil as a fuel.

This is why I have been searching for this particular (apparently somewhat "rare") baby benz. I have a Ford F250 which has been happily running on waste vegoil from a local oriental buffet for over 22,000 miles but would like a more comfortable and "sporty" car for use when I don't have much stuff to haul around. I think the 190 DT is about as sporty a diesel powered car I can get in the US. If it only had a manual transmission.

Anyway..I originally set up the F250 with a return line for the diesel AND vegoil..was convinced that was the way it was originally designed and that there must be a good reason for it. After 14,000 miles on vegoil I changed the configuration of the system to incorporate a "looped" vegoil circuit but retained the diesel circuit return line. This worked well since it allowed for faster warming of the vegoil while still allowing a simple way to purge any air bubbles which might sneak into the fuel lines.

For the 190DT conversion I have designed a system that incorporates a small vegoil tank which fits inside the spare tire...actually the cavity of the wheel. This is turn is kept full by "disposable tanks" of vegoil which reside in the sides of the trunk...on leak proof trays and hidden by carpet covered fold down panels. These "disposable tanks allow for refuelling with vegoil outside of the trunk...since vegoil spills inside impart a "rancid oil" smell to the vehicle which detracts from driving enjoyment. A small dash light warns when the disposable tanks are empty and only 60 miles of vegoil fuel remain. This allows for a conversion which minimises "cutting into" the stock fuel system and leaves most of the trunk space usable.

This small tank allows a vegoil return line to once again be incorporated in the design while retaining the advantages of a looped vegoil fuel system. If you are interested in following the conversion of this vehicle I am posting it here.

I have found the key to long term use of waste vegoil as fuel is having a vegoil fuel system which can use even solidified WVO (waste vegoil) since the "gel point" of wvo varies widely depending on the base vegetable oil and the fat content as well as the temperature. Of course I live in MN so I need to contend with subzero temps and solid "fuel" for nearly 5 months of the year.

And of course filtering the wvo well is critical. The first efforts I put forth regarding vegoil equipment desing was developing simple to make and use vegoil processors. Later I designed and developed simple to make and install vegoil conversion components. I do sell emailable "how to" files with pictures and diagrams for the filter units and conversion components on my personal web site. There is also the most comprehensive Frequently Asked Questions list on vegoil conversion there as well along with a description of what it takes to convert a diesel to vegoil. If you are interested take a look here .

Using these designs it is quite possible to convert a vehicle to vegoil AND build a wvo processor (filter/pump/holding tank) unit for less than $US250.

Feel free to contact me if you have any questions. danalinscott@yahoo.com

Dana