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  #151  
Old 05-12-2003, 10:38 PM
redfox
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I'm glad we have so many obediant servants to the federal government or my business would have been taken over by some corporation by now.

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  #152  
Old 05-12-2003, 10:44 PM
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Who was it that said " You can fool some of the people all the time, all the people some of the time but not all the people all the time.... "?
The amount of time which you spend off the subject , leaving out pertinent facts, avoiding direct answers,,,, is amazing.. you must deal with a lot of people without critical reading or thinking skills to be in such an entrenched habit....
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  #153  
Old 05-12-2003, 10:46 PM
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When last I checked, we had the right to vote, and to express our opinion to our lawmakers, but not to defy laws simply because we think they are stupid.

The link I posted was to the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services. Their press release, issued by Commissioner Bob Crawford on 3/18/98, states that flammable refrigerants are illegal in Florida. Vicki O'Neil's name is at the top of the release. Has the law in Florida changed since then? Or are you using some sort of loophole? I can see no other option.
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  #154  
Old 05-12-2003, 10:59 PM
redfox
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The laws in Fl have not changed, but if you will look closely enough you will find that in FL this is not law, It is an agency regulation which any bureau chief can write up and be enforced as law as long as it is not challenged in a court of law. I would welcome the opportunity to challenge this in court. Why hasn't FL done any testing on the products? Because they already know the answers. Have you ever tried to take the government to court? I've tried. They can keep themselves out of court as long as they want to and you will exhaust your energy and resources because they have both.
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  #155  
Old 05-12-2003, 11:03 PM
redfox
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leathermang

You may be in the first category. You can fool some of the people all of the time.
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  #156  
Old 05-12-2003, 11:10 PM
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When facts are not on your side, attack the messenger....
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  #157  
Old 05-12-2003, 11:11 PM
redfox
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Truthfully, I have dealt with chemical engineers, fire investigators, fire consultants, fire engineers, police officers, firemen, TV reporters, newspaper reporters and etc... and none of them have ever tried to prove me wrong. Whenever you say Dupont they don't want to talk to you anymore. I wonder why that is.
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  #158  
Old 05-12-2003, 11:15 PM
redfox
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leathermang

I've been investigating 134a for 8 years so why would you guys want to attack me? Don't you want to know the truth? Attack the messenger.
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  #159  
Old 05-12-2003, 11:20 PM
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Well, I'm not a Duracool defender, but I have to say, I don't think Redfox is breaking any federal laws. The EPA said that you can't replace R-12 in an automobile w/ a "flamable" refrigerant. Duracool and all purely hydrocarbon refrigerants are flamable, and therefore are illegal to place in an R-12 system. However, the federal gov't taketh away, and it giveth. The SNAP refrigerants, including Duracool, may be placed in a system that all ready has been converted to R134a. A close reading of the EPA website confirms this, which I suppose is why all the HC refrigerant websites talk about replacing R-134a w/ their products. This seems crazy, because obviously the flamable nature of the refrigerant hasn't changed. However, the federal gov't has permitted this application (although many states do not). Basically its a loophole that I can only assume that the feds know about, and aren't interested in closing.

When I was repairing the A/C on my SL I seriously considered the HC refrigerants. They work, they're cheap... but ultimately I just felt that it made the most sense to go with the best and safest - R- 12. When I have to redo the A/C on my SD, it's getting R-12 too.

Now, one question I've always had - I've seen in several places that R134a burns at somewhere around 1300 degrees F. Most of the blends have higher flash points (at least before one part of the blend leeches away ) so why isn't R-134 also considered flamable?
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  #160  
Old 05-12-2003, 11:51 PM
redfox
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tjohn

I'm glad someone may be listening. 134a in the beginning was listed as non-flammable because they stated that the ignition temperature was above 1386 degrees. After so much pressure was applied it was listed as practically non- flammable because it ignited at 1328 degrees at atmospheric pressure. Dupont has always admitted that 134a would ignite at 351 degrees at 5.5 psi. This is considered combustible not flammable by UL standards. Many of the agencies we trust may not be trustworthy. Early on I did not understand the difference until a fireman explained it to me. Duracool has never been submitted to my knowledge as a drop-in replacement for R12 because we knew the politics involved. We always call it a drop-in for 134a because we always knew we could win if the truth ever came out in a court of law. You can't hide from the truth forever. Canada on the other hand doesn't have the same obligation to Dupont as the U.S. and we are a drop-in there. We are the only refrigerant that can be sold in small cans in Canada besides other hydrocarbons. Most people do not realize that a can of hairspray is much more dangerous than 2 cans of Duracool.
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  #161  
Old 05-13-2003, 12:11 AM
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Who cares about the laws. It's not like the EPA will send a SWAT team to your house if you put the wrong crap in your car. Big fat hairy deal. The point is Duracool outperforms R-134a and is a valid replacement, which is legal in many states. Great. Fine. No argument there. The point redfox consistently ignores is that Duracool will NOT outperform R-12, particularly in high ambient temps, and therefore is a downgrade, not an upgrade. The topic of the post, some 12 pages ago, was R-12 Alternatives... not R-134a alternatives! Hello...? **sigh**
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  #162  
Old 05-13-2003, 12:23 AM
redfox
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gsxr

In most cases that I know of Duracool WILL do better than R12. I have had too many people tell me so besides the results that I have seen for myself. Prove me wrong. Put it in and if it doesn't work better I will refund your money. Nobody that has ever accused me of cheating them on this website.
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  #163  
Old 05-13-2003, 12:27 AM
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GSXR wrote:
Quote:
The topic of the post, some 12 pages ago, was R-12 Alternatives... not R-134a alternatives!
Dave M. : You' re right of course. If you ever convert to Autofrost be sure to post here or on the diesel list . . I'm curious to know how it performs.
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  #164  
Old 05-13-2003, 12:27 AM
redfox
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gsxr

You are in ID why would you care anyway. I've been to Idaho and unless Boise is any different than the rest of the state then you barely need a/c for most of the year.
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  #165  
Old 05-13-2003, 12:33 AM
redfox
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A friend told me today that the internet can be a more powerful addiction than drugs. He may be right, but I am tired and I am going to bed.

Sweet dreams.

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