R-12 alternatives - Page 20 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

JimmyL · #**286** 11-19-2008, 02:05 AM

I like and respect Al a whole bunch, but even with new components R134a here in Texas just isn't acceptable in the least. Under 90 degrees, no worries.
Please note, I speak only in terms of the W123 on this matter. I don't know beans about the W116 and it's condenser size and the like. I have seen Dan get out of his W126 in mid Texas summer running R134a and where he grabbed my arm got frost bite!!!

If Al says it then you can trust that it is true in his application....

derburger · #**287** 11-19-2008, 02:10 AM

I de-converted my 300cd from r-134a to r12. Best thing I've done to the car, it now cools like a modern car or better. The r12 didn't cost too much, I got it for $17/can, and the test online to buy it was $10 or $15 from ASE. I bought a new AC Delco compressor, new TXvalve and drier, new o-rings and flushed the hoses and heat exchangers. Working r12 A/C and a working Evil servo automatic climate control, how about that.

alabbasi · #**288** 11-19-2008, 02:14 AM

Jimmy

I'm going to have to take this car to the pick'n'pull from now on. I'm sure i'll catch you there you can see it for yourself.

Like I said, I wasn't a believer until I drove this car (hence the barrels of R12 in my possession) and more importantly, I'm not advocating moving away from R12 If you don't have to.

However, for any who find themselves having to, then move to a standardized refrigerant that you can buy anywhere, wont void your warranty and wont contaminate your mechanic's A/C recycling machine.

leathermang · #**289** 11-20-2008, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alabbasi

However, for any who find themselves having to, then move to a standardized refrigerant that you can buy anywhere, wont void your warranty and wont contaminate your mechanic's A/C recycling machine.

Very True.... and often ignored part of the decision making process...

If forced to move to the higher working pressure R134 you may want to change to the later and proper serial number Delco compressor ( super hockey puck ).

Until I consulted with Carlisle Auto Air I thought I was going to need to switch to a regular swashplate compressor... like the GM 6 piston... which would have meant lots of welding and fitting I did not really want to do...

But they said that later Delco compressors were made to run with R134a ( and thus avoid the black death so common a year after so many conversions in the past ) and would thus bolt in ( but check your manifold style...and keep in mind that the FSM says to replace that bolton manifold when cleaning the system).

I may have posted the right number in the archives..but don't remember.

tangofox007 · #**290** 11-20-2008, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alabbasi

Jimmy

However, for any who find themselves having to, then move to a standardized refrigerant that you can buy anywhere, wont void your warranty ...

How many R-12 vehicles do you reckon are still under warranty?

alabbasi · #**291** 11-20-2008, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tangofox007

How many R-12 vehicles do you reckon are still under warranty?

I was referring to the new condenser that I bought for my 6.9 and nmot the car itself.

Please see one of my earlier posting,

11-17-2008 11:01 AM
alabbasi I just spent a good part ........I do remember when buying the condenser that it came in a box with big bold writing that said WARRANTY VOID UNLESS R12 OR R134 IS USED.

#**292** 11-20-2008, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derburger

I de-converted my 300cd from r-134a to r12. Best thing I've done to the car, it now cools like a modern car or better. The r12 didn't cost too much, I got it for $17/can, and the test online to buy it was $10 or $15 from ASE. I bought a new AC Delco compressor, new TXvalve and drier, new o-rings and flushed the hoses and heat exchangers. Working r12 A/C and a working Evil servo automatic climate control, how about that.

100% correct. I did the same thing on my 123 earlier this year - took it back in time to good old R12 and in Atlanta summers

, in heavy traffic

, in a black-on-black car

, it keeps me in my work attire (often a suit) cool the way 134 never could.

When sitting still, even the R12 equipped 123 still does not cool quite as well as the 134 in my more modern 400e. I suspect that even with R12 the condenser in the 123 is simply too damn small.

Anyone thinking of "converting" a 123 chassis off of R12 needs to think long and hard about doing so. R12 is NOT hard to find and the performance is night and day in these cars.

gsxr · #**293** 11-20-2008, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrhills0146

Anyone thinking of "converting" a 123 chassis off of R12 needs to think long and hard about doing so. R12 is NOT hard to find and the performance is night and day in these cars.

Exactly. If R-12 was gone, or outrageously priced, conversions would make a lot more sense. But since that is not yet the case, there is almost zero reason (other than convenience) to convert to R-134a. The drawbacks of R-134a are just too high, IMO... mostly it's that nasty PAG/POE moisture-absorbing oils that are required. Worse yet, the moisture won't boil away in a vacuum like it does with mineral oil. Not good!

tangofox007 · #**294** 11-20-2008, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrhills0146

Anyone thinking of "converting" a 123 chassis off of R12 needs to think long and hard about doing so.

Better yet, don't even think about it!!!

WD8CDH · #**295** 11-21-2008, 04:59 PM

One of my W123s had been converted to 134a. It just wouldn't handle the heat and humidity here. From previous experience using hydrocarbon refrigerants on industrial systems, I put HC-12 in my '85 300D. It's probably the only way to improve the output over R-12a. Three summers and still going strong. Slightly, but noticeably better than R-12 in my other W123s by 3 to 5 degrees.

84300DT · #**296** 07-15-2009, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whunter

For new member education.

good idea.. thanks..

leathermang · #**297** 07-15-2009, 11:21 PM

Thanks WHunter,

I would like to say again that on these old cars no matter what refrigerant you use you should seriously look at cleaning the fins on the EVAPORATOR... that is inside under your dash... and hard to get to... but those who have accessed and cleaned it found a LOT of grime, hair and dust blocking the flow of air across it...

It does not do enough good under many of our circumstances to only snap up the rest of the system... that is a critical interface in the cooling of air inside our OLD cars...
See DMorrison's great post about cleaning his...

gsxr · #**298** 07-16-2009, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leathermang

I would like to say again that on these old cars no matter what refrigerant you use you should seriously look at cleaning the fins on the EVAPORATOR... that is inside under your dash... and hard to get to... but those who have accessed and cleaned it found a LOT of grime, hair and dust blocking the flow of air across it...

That's why MB started putting dust filters at the air inlet, to prevent this. It works great... but didn't appear until the early/mid 90's, unfortunately.

Quote:

Originally Posted by leathermang

See DMorrison's great post about cleaning his...

Got a link?

whunter · #**299** 07-16-2009, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsxr

That's why MB started putting dust filters at the air inlet, to prevent this. It works great... but didn't appear until the early/mid 90's, unfortunately.

Got a link?

whunter · #**300** 10-18-2012, 01:46 PM

for new members

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