Anybody have any idea what they use to crank it up?

Wes

My guess is they must use a donkey engine to start this thing. Sort of like the black-start up on a new power generation plant?

I agree it looks like it is in a factory instead of the ship. I told a twin engine aircraft owner about this (he is an MBZ diesel nut also) and asked why twin diesels was not a better fit instead of one monster like this behemoth. He said a single drive line in rough weather (airplane or ship) was preferable. One engine out meant you had to compensate with the rudder in a BIG way as the thrust was off center. In foul seas this usually results in the ship moving in a big circle.

I am still amazed at the 300 ton crankshaft.

I believe that they use compressed air to start some of these engines. I do no know whether it is admitted to the cylinders or to an air-driven gearing system on the flywheel for starting.

Also, it's not uncommon to run these big direct-drive diesels on what is called "manuvering fuel" when negotiating ship channels or entering harbors. Direct drive diesels are stopped and restarted in reverse whenever astern power is called for from the bridge. Manuvering fuel is more like #1 or #2 diesel and provides more reliable engine response to forward and astern engine bells as well as changes in propeller speed.

Sea fuel is tar-like and must be heated significantly so that it can be pumped to the engine and injected into the cylinders for ignition.

Occasionally, on the Houston Ship Channel and in the offing near Bolivar Roads you will see an outboud deep draft vessel producing a soot plume that would make a MBZ driver green (or is it black??) with envy. This happens when the engineer starts changing over to operate the engine on sea fuel. Once operating and on a steady power setting with sea fuel, relatively little soot is generated.

Regards all,
R Leo

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Never a dull moment at Berry Hill Farm.

A bit of locomotive lore..... early trains equipped with diesels were started at installation, then lived their lives (say 6-8 yrs between overhaul) perpetually running - just turned down to very very low idle when not in use. It just wasnt economically feasable to restart diesel engines for dailly use on commuter railroad lines.

All maintenance including oil changes, etc were performed with locomotive diesel engine running!

Back in the early '70s, one of my earliest childhood memories is walking past sleeping diesel engines at low idle speed in NYC Grand Central Station, visiting the city with my father.

Whats the redline on a beast like this? 300rpm?

I don't know about Baldwins, ALCos or any of the other manufacturers of 1st generation diesel locomotives but EMDs were notorious coolant leakers.

They were so bad that EMD 16V-567s (and later on, the 645s too) prime movers had petcocks on each of the cylinders so that the water could be forced out of the cylinders on restart after the engines had been shut down.

Check out my post on this thread: Glow plug wear question

R

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Never a dull moment at Berry Hill Farm.

Maximum engine RPM is 100 rpm, give or take a few revs.

It would be interesting to change the oil on the beast.

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2000 Honda Accord V6 137k miles

1972 300SEL 4.5 98k miles

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If it was for a diesel-electric gen set-up, they could use the generators backwards to start the engines, but depends on the setup. Some (but not all) DE trains or similar appliances can do this. Would require a lot of power to crank it for an hour though! Judging by the engine's size and it being 2-cycle, it's probably a direct drive set and will use a smaller diesel to start it up.

ATLD

When I was a kid in 1973, I took a trip to Europe on a freighter. My dad was in the industry at the time and could do this. The ship, MV Troll Park, had a 7 cyl Sulzer Marine diesel engine in her. The max speed was about 107 rpm, the engine was heated before the ship left port and was started with a compressed air 'engine'. The ship carried a spare cylinder, conn rod bits as well as other engine parts and machineable parts since there was a metalworking shop aboard. The engine vibration at speed, 107 rpm, caused the aft superstructure to vibrate and it was hard to sleep the first night.

I toured Europe visiting the MAN marine diesel engine facility in Augsburg and the Sulzer factory in Wintertur. The erecting shops were amazing. The crankshafts are made from individual sections which are fitted together by shrink fitting the various pieces together. The pistons have oil galleries for cooling and there is a HUGE turbocharger to help things along.

Some ship use controllable pitch props and some use cort nozzels as well. There were smaller diesel generator pairs for electrical power.

BTW, these large engines throw large chunks of carbon from the stack and the stern of the ship gets quite dirty.

Regards

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Regards

Warren

Currently 1965 220Sb, 2002 FORD Crown Vic Police Interceptor

Had 1965 220SEb, 1967 230S, 280SE 4.5, 300SE (W126), 420SEL

ENTER > = (HP RPN)

Not part of the in-crowd since 1952.

Hey - I resemble that remark! I work for the company that builds that engine. Anything you wanna know, just let me know. Sulzer was bought by Wartsila, whom I work for, several years ago. The RTA 96 in the photos is a 12 cylinder in-line engine. 96 cm (37.8") is the cylinder bore. That particular engine in the photos was built in a Korean shipyard. It is not uncommon for "license builders" like shipyards to build their engines under license from us.

That engine runs at up to 100 rpm, but "cruises" at about 80 rpm. It is started with direct air on the pistons, (430 psig) not a flywheel ring gear starter motor. These engines run fine on diesel fuel, but due to fuel cost, they are made to operate on "heavy fuel oil" a.k.a. "Bunker" fuel oil, a.k.a. "No. 6 oil". It is, as others describe, one step above asphalt or tar. It has to be heated to about 250F before it is thin enough to go through the injectors.

Heaven help the ship's engineer who stops his engine and lets it cool with heavy fuel in it! The stuff turns quite solid when cool. Ordinarily one switches to diesel before a long shutdown. It is possible to start and stop on heavy fuel, but you have to keep the fuel circulating hot, which is what they do.

Virtually all these so called "slow speed" two-stroke engines are direct propulsion, with no gearbox, just direct to the propellor shaft, and they are reversing engines also, as others mention. We now have a "common rail" version with electronically controlled injection, the first in the industry for these large engines. Believe it or not, with electronic controls, we have had the engines "idling" down as low as 10 RPM!

Ask me about our big 4-strokes some time!

Rgds,
Chris W.
just joined the diesel auto ranks this week with a new '95 E300D

Hey Chris, that's fantastic.

The ship I mentioned had an RND-76. It was made in 3MAJ Yugoslavia.

3MAJ?

What does that sound like or mean?

I can't speak the Slavic languages because my mouth doesn'tmove that way.

Regards

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Regards

Warren

Currently 1965 220Sb, 2002 FORD Crown Vic Police Interceptor

Had 1965 220SEb, 1967 230S, 280SE 4.5, 300SE (W126), 420SEL

ENTER > = (HP RPN)

Not part of the in-crowd since 1952.

I guess you bought the one you looked at last week?? Send some photos!

I think I have enjoyed this thread more than any other except the "which oil is best for diesels" one which had the potential of ending in a bar room brawl. This one has been informative and entertaining while civilized.

Chris, here is my "ship" with the center-thrust prop and inline six-oh-six. I think you will like yours. Let's see some more big engine photos folks. I think we need a section in the diesel discussion for locomotive and power generation discussions. And let's not forget that MB is brining the diesel back in '04. I hear the Jeep Liberty will sport an I-6 diesel in '05 or '06. Can't wait to see it.

Just proves that the diesel part of the world is in "control" of commerce and owns the real power on this planet.

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Is the specific power output of the 2 stroke greater than on the 4-stroke like on motorbikes? Guess I'm thinking hp/lb or some such measure.

Which criteria dictate 2 vs 4 stroke?

Great thread.

Isn't the basic difference betwen 2 stroke and 4 stroke that the 2 stroke fires on each return of the piston and 4 stroke fires every other? I got this lesson about thirty years ago and can't remember much about it.