Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog Tech Info Tech Forums
 
  Search our site:    
 Cart  | Project List | Order Status | Help    


  Join us November 1st for Casino Night at the Pelican Parts Open House!
Benefiting LuMind - Research and Treatment for individuals with Down Syndrome
Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum > Technical Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-03-2003, 12:50 AM
BoostnBenz's Avatar
Benötigt Mehr Druck!
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,855
Best diesel fuel stations? Cetane levels. Premium diesel. (long)

Hi all,
I've been wondering these kind of things for a while now, it seems as if no fuel stations post their cetane level of the diesel fuel. Every station I've went to before and asked the attendant they looked at me all confused and reply that they don't know. So what did I do? I emailed the corporate websites of my two most common stations. I also read up on some older threads to find a few opinions that;
Sunoco doesn't yield as good as fuel mileage, not very good fuel.
Cenex is yields better than average fuel mileage.
Amoco makes a premium diesel with much higher than normal cetane levels, however it comes at a cost and is sort of hard to find.

After emailing Marathon Ashland Petroleum (CMS, Marathon, Speedway) they replied that:

Quote:
Marathon Brand doesn't actually sell a premium diesel in Michigan. Sometimes the supplying jobber will do their own thing and sell it by blending an additive with our fuel. We don't have any specific information on premium diesel. There is an industry standard from the National Conference of Weights & Measures definition of Premium Diesel. Here it is:

[quoted from email, from NCWM's website]
Quote:
NCWM's Premium Diesel Fuel Standards & Tests
The following are the five performance properties that comprise the National Conference on Weights and Measures (NCWM) Premium Diesel Fuel Standards. A Fuel marketer must meet at least two standards in order to be able to advertise "Premium Diesel" in states that adopt the NCWM standards.
Energy (Btu) Content: The fuel must have at least 138,700 Btu, as measured by ASTM D-240
Cetane Number: The fuel must have a cetane number of at least 47, as measured by ASTM D-613.
Fuel Injector Cleanliness: The fuel must either pass a CRC rating test with a 10.0 or less, or it must have a flow loss of 6.0% or less on the Cummins L-10 test.
Low Temperature Operability: The fuel must provide cold-flow performance down to ASTM D-975 tenth percentile minimum ambient air temperature charts and maps for the region and time of year where the fuel will be sold. This performance must be proven through use of the Low-Temperature Flow Test, also known as ASTM D-4539, on the Cloud Point Test.
Thermal Stability: The fuel must get at least an 80% reflectance measurement using a filter in the Octel F21-61 test.
After researching further at that site I found that in order to be claimed diesel it must meet two of those criteria. BP/Amoco hasn't yet replied, maybe I'll give them a call if they don't soon or I don't gain enough info here. Do you notice better mileage with any certain stations? Do you notice worse with some?

My own observations:
Sunoco is decent fuel, yields decent mileage
CMS is good fuel, yields decent mileage
SpeedyQ is poor fuel, yields OK mileage
BP is good fuel, yielded me my record mileage of low 30s on winter blend.

My biased opinion, I like BP because they have pay at the pump in my area and they pumps pump very very quick. Neither CMS or Sunoco use pay at the pump and both pump mediocre. SpeedyQ pumps the slowest, but uses pay at the pump. While biased opinions are fine, I wouldn't mind seeing some stats or facts, especially if you get better fuel mileage on one brand vs another.
__________________
Jeff M.
Mercedes W123 DIY pages are now located here.
1983 / 1984 300D Sold
2000 CLK430 Cabriolet ~58k Sold
2005 Avalanche 4x4 ~66k
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-03-2003, 10:04 AM
Randall Kress
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Something you may want to consider when shopping for fuels is high volume turnover. You don't want to buy stale fuel, or dirty fuel for that matter. I too kind BP/Amoco the best, along with Texaco. Mobile cetanes (I've seen) are at 40, while a Gulf station near me sells 45! I like the Gulf too. If your are really concerned about the cetane, buy a cetane booster to get it high enough.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-03-2003, 10:04 AM
Rick Miley's Avatar
Spark Free
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 3,069
This is the operative part of your post: "Sometimes the supplying jobber will do their own thing..."

So you never really know what you're going to get. On the other hand all Hess stations are required to get their supply directly from Hess. The quality is consistent and one of our members in Sarasota had a fuel sample tested that came out at 47 cetane.

My seat of the pants evaluation is that all three of my Diesels love Hess fuel. They run far better on it than any other petroleum based fuel.

Biodiesel, however, is even better. Just this week I started experimenting with Biodiesel from Ward Oil Company in Tampa. The 240D is running 100% bio and seems to be much quieter and smoother. The Jetta is on a 20% bio mix, again with a noticable reduction in noise. I drove it yesterday and would have mistaken it for a gasser if I didn't know better. The E300 hasn't had a dose yet.

So if you can get the Hess, definitely try that. And if you can get biodiesel, try a 10% to 20% mix for even more improvement.
__________________
Rick Miley
99 E300 TurboDiesel
82 300D Euro
00 VW Jetta TDI
12 Honda Pilot
14 Tesla Model S
Former MB: 86 190E 2.3, 87 300E, 80 240D
Chain Elongation References
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-03-2003, 11:36 AM
BoostnBenz's Avatar
Benötigt Mehr Druck!
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,855
I've never heard of Hess before, we don't have any here. I thought about making biodiesel but became lazy. I suppose the whole reason for this thread is I'm trying to find which station sells diesel with the most energy per gallon and best cetane level for the normal prices. I use redline DFC which will boost the cetane a few points, but still I'd like to know what I'm buying. I was hoping that there would be a concrete answer, but I suppose most stations get their own fuel from their own distrubutor.
__________________
Jeff M.
Mercedes W123 DIY pages are now located here.
1983 / 1984 300D Sold
2000 CLK430 Cabriolet ~58k Sold
2005 Avalanche 4x4 ~66k
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-03-2003, 12:40 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Reno/Sparks, NV
Posts: 3,063
I too have the same frustration with cetane and wish every fuel station posted it. A couple local Texaco stations advertise "premium diesel fuel" but the price is no different from any other fuel station so I doubt it's really premium, although my car ran a little better on it. By the way, the Chevron website has an excellent write-up on diesel fuel. I also try fuels from different stations and recently my car has been running a lot smoother at cold idle with diesel fuel from a local Shell station, though on the pump it says it's a local brand, not Shell fuel. I do add a bottle of fuel additive at every fill-up to raise the cetane even more.
__________________
2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-03-2003, 01:17 PM
BoostnBenz's Avatar
Benötigt Mehr Druck!
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,855
Mobil replied with some information that they require a min of 40 cetane, I get the feeling that is what Mobil brand diesel is and the fuel station has to use additives if they want to boost it any higher than that.

CMS call their diesel premium diesel, in order for it to be preimium though it must meet at least two of the previously stated requirements. Sure it is premium, but I think high cetane diesel (like amoco sells) seems to cost more. I rarely ever see CMS pricing any different than the other big stations. I only know of one shell station that sells diesel and their prices are insane, then again so is that whole area. It sure would be nice they posted the cetane on the pump just like the law requires the octane and the method used to derive that number.
__________________
Jeff M.
Mercedes W123 DIY pages are now located here.
1983 / 1984 300D Sold
2000 CLK430 Cabriolet ~58k Sold
2005 Avalanche 4x4 ~66k
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-11-2003, 06:46 PM
LightMan's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 349
BoostnBenz, your location isn't listed, where did you say you were, Michigan? You are in one of the few states that is able to get 50 cetane minimum Amoco Premier. Seek it out, and use it exclusively, it's by far one of if not the best fuel in the country. Minimum 50 cetane, low aromatics, low sulfur, better basestocks, great additive package, etc. You will have quicker starts, better mpgs, and more power. It's worth a bit of a drive to use.

Where in Michigan are you? There are a few places that sell Amoco Premier and Biodiesel. One place called Wacker Oil, sells a B20 (20% biodiesel) mix of Premier and Bio, talk about a sweet sweet mix!!!!
__________________
2004 Ram 2500 Cummins HO
2000 Jetta TDI
1999 E300 (sold)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-11-2003, 07:41 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Burbank, CA
Posts: 596
I've heard the Calif. and Texas require minimum 48 cetane levels. Some, however, say that fuel mpgs under Calif. fuel is less -- and my experience seems to bear that out. Anyone know why?
__________________
'91 300D 2.5 Turbo 305K
'00 VW TDI Golf, 156K
'67 BMW R50/2
'73 Norton Commando Interstate
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-11-2003, 07:44 PM
BoostnBenz's Avatar
Benötigt Mehr Druck!
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,855
Indeed, there is a Amoco in Rochester. I searched their network for a place that carried it and I found the station before but never stopped in. Almost seemed like it was $.25-.30/gal extra there but I'm not sure.

I should find a restaurant around here and do that. WVO sounds pretty nice, especially the price of it.

California requires more oxygen in their fuel, so in a gallon of diesel you are also buying air for the price of the diesel. Isn't that great?!
__________________
Jeff M.
Mercedes W123 DIY pages are now located here.
1983 / 1984 300D Sold
2000 CLK430 Cabriolet ~58k Sold
2005 Avalanche 4x4 ~66k
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-11-2003, 07:54 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Burbank, CA
Posts: 596
More air, great...just like cheap ice cream. Thanks.
__________________
'91 300D 2.5 Turbo 305K
'00 VW TDI Golf, 156K
'67 BMW R50/2
'73 Norton Commando Interstate
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-11-2003, 08:03 PM
BoostnBenz's Avatar
Benötigt Mehr Druck!
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,855
As an update, after contacting quite a few companies BP and Sunoco never returned the email so next time I go there I'll get the managers info then contact him and make him find this out for me. Being this actually varies per region it may not be worth posting the results here.
__________________
Jeff M.
Mercedes W123 DIY pages are now located here.
1983 / 1984 300D Sold
2000 CLK430 Cabriolet ~58k Sold
2005 Avalanche 4x4 ~66k
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-11-2003, 08:14 PM
LightMan's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 349
BoostnBenz, premier is worth whatever extra it costs. Hopefully it is in fact premier. When you fill , look, its usually clear with a slight green tinge..
__________________
2004 Ram 2500 Cummins HO
2000 Jetta TDI
1999 E300 (sold)
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-11-2003, 10:11 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Evansville, Indiana
Posts: 8,150
#2 diesel isn't the most highly characterized fuel on the face of the earth. I happened to run into the cheif chemist at the Marathon refinery last week at European Connection, my local Benz indy's shop, and he admitted that diesel fuel production is basically distilling the proper "cut" out of the crude and adding the additive package and shipping it. Very little more.

Now, if you are in the market for molten sulfur, he's going to have trainloads of it in the near future......

He also said that with the current distrubution system, you are likely to end up with just about anything in anyones diesel fuel station, just what depends on where you are.

You will still have to shop around and see. My two local faves are Phillips 66 (known here are Circle S) and Shell. The Phillips smokes more in the winter, but starts easier, and the Shell smokes less most of the time (hard to tell on the 300D, it never smokes at all except on an occasional heavy throttle start), and give better milage on the average.

Peter
__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-11-2003, 10:19 PM
LightMan's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 349
psfred is right, most standard #2 diesel travels along the same shared pipeline, and is separated and branded/additized at the terminals. Amoco Premier and Bp Diesel Supreme are kept separate from the refinery to the station, the whole way, so they are not polluted with nasty regular #2. Those who have access to this TRUE premium fuel are very lucky.
__________________
2004 Ram 2500 Cummins HO
2000 Jetta TDI
1999 E300 (sold)
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-12-2003, 04:57 PM
jhal's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Brooksville Fl
Posts: 226
Hess DieselI

I agree with Rick on Hess for what is't worth. Best bang for your buck so to speak. I commmute three counties for work every day, and find that they have the best consistancy from station to station. Texaco "premium" diesel seems to give a LITTLE better kick in the pants, but the $.30 a gallon differance doesn't justify the addition cost per tank. Only one Hess (in Brooksville) publishes the cetane rating on the pump that I frequent.
Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2003, 04:57 PM
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:54 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2011 Pelican Parts - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page