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  #1  
Old 07-26-2003, 02:20 AM
Cazzzidy
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Smokin' like a burning tire...

My 220D smokes bad... like ... reallllly bad.

When I place on my hand 8 inches from the exhaust pipe, I can feel plooms of smoke PUNCHING my hand in time with the firing cylinders. This thing is dumping a massive, ungodfully sinful amount of unburned diesel smoke into the air.

The smoke is not bluish or black, indicating oil or coolant combustion. It is just gray diesel exhaust ... but lots of it.

My mechanic told me to replace a bad injector that he suspected was stuck open (firing on all cycles) or some similar issue. So I bought ONE injector, because they are damn expensive, and went to work finding the bad injector my mechanic assured me existed. I would replace an injector with the fresh one, start her up, and check for smoke. If she was still smoking heavily, I put the old injector back in and tride another cylinder. Well, sure enough, I tested all four cylinder with the new injector and I got no improvement what so ever. Damnit!

So what to do now? I think I am going to, firstly, pressure test all four injectors at my mechanic's. If they are ALL bad, then I will move on to the injection pump/controll. Any ideas? Advice? Goodbyes?

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  #2  
Old 07-26-2003, 10:35 AM
hotskillet
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I'd bet something's out of adjustment

How's your: timing chain stretch, valve adjustment, IP timing. Hopefully it's smoke and not steam! I doubt you blew a head gasket if your engine is running well, but for good conscience make sure it's smoke yousee and not steam.
Check your coolant to see if it has any oil or contaminants, also check the coolant level.

Good luck
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  #3  
Old 07-26-2003, 10:38 AM
hotskillet
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By the way,

I may be wrong, however, I always thought that black smoke meant unburned fuel, blue smoke was oil, and white was more often thn not steam vapor.
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  #4  
Old 07-26-2003, 12:35 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Woolwich, Maine
Posts: 3,598
Cazzzidy


Did this condition start abruptly or has the car always smoked like this since you have owned it? Does the car drive ok or not? Is there normal power or is the car slower and less responsive than usual?

How far have you driven the car in this condition? Does the condition get any better when you are driving or does the amount of smoke increase as you load the engine? If you have driven the car a few thousand miles like this, or even a few hundred, have you noticed any engine oil consumption?

A little more data can help try to narrow down the possible causes as what you have told us so far is hard to identify with any particular issue. Good luck, Jim
__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)
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  #5  
Old 07-26-2003, 12:49 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Evansville, Indiana
Posts: 8,150
Check your oil!

A hole in the vac pump diaphram will suck enourmous amounts of oil out of the crankcase, it won't always burn blue.

If you indeed have lots of unburned fuel, check compression (or at least the valve clearance), and check the chain -- if it is worn, both valve and injection timing will be late, and you will get both hard starts cold and lots of white smoke.

Does the smoke turn black with a hot engine and high load? If so, low compression for sure.

Peter
__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!
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  #6  
Old 07-26-2003, 01:54 PM
Cazzzidy
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My vacume pump diaghram plunger fell out, and I had to rebuild the pump. When that hapeened, my brakes failed and I got massice amounts of black smoke out the tail pipe. It is not that kind of smoke.

I really dont think it is steam, but I suppose its possible. The coolant is nice and green, with no obvious oil contamination.

The car smokes the worst when cold. It is kinda hard to start, unless I have the idle adjustment knob set to highest. As the car heats up, it smokes less and less ... but still more than I am comfortable with.

The car runs cold too ... around 150 deg usually ... so mabye that adds to the problem?

Any more ideas?

EDIT: Oil consumption is not serious. This car smokes so much that I would be out of oil in a few days if it were indeed causing the problem.

A picture of the smoke:



This was taken after idling for 10-12 seconds on a cold start. She stuttered a bit, even on the highest idle setting.
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  #7  
Old 07-26-2003, 02:26 PM
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gimme a low-tech 240D
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: central ky
Posts: 3,602
The fact the car runs cold makes me think combustion chambers are dirty as hell.

Maybe if its driven hard on extended trip the precombustion chambers, injectors, valve seats, piston tops and glow plugs will be driven clean of carbon build up and varnish deposits.

This assumes the car runs ok and you have checked valve clearances, timing chain stretch, etc.
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  #8  
Old 07-26-2003, 03:30 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Evansville, Indiana
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Low compression and late injection timing, probably a result of worn chain.

You must check the chain stretch and replace it if beyond specs (8 degrees) before diving into anything else.

This looks just like the 220D on a bad day -- some blue in there, too, probably bad valve seals.

Cold running s a bad thermostat. Replace it, make sure you don't have a coolant leak, and drive the ..... out of it for a couple hours. This will improve the condition of the prechambers considerably.

Get some RedLine and run through it too -- if the knock goes away, then comes back, you probably have worn nozzles, too.

Peter
__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!
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  #9  
Old 07-26-2003, 10:10 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Woolwich, Maine
Posts: 3,598
Cazzzidy


With my 1972 220D I had to take the head off and replace the valve guides and seals, and clean up the intake valves. It also smoked like yours. The oil leaking past the valve guides caked on the top of the intake vavle poppets preventing them from effectively seating. This caused compression to degrade to the point where starting was difficult and combustion was poor. Lots of smoke from incompletely burned Diesel and a good amount of oil, especially at start ups. None of this was particularly good for the prechambers either, but they were ok structurally and I did not replace them.

On the good side, the head came off pretty easily as there is next to nothing but the engine in the engine compartment. No air, no turbo, just a little engine. Easy access. Once repaired the engine ran nicely, much less smoking and normal starting, for 5 or 6 years that I was still in touch with the car.

Good luck, Jim
__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)
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  #10  
Old 07-26-2003, 10:29 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: PA
Posts: 5,440
Hot skillet,

You got 2 wrong.

White smoke is unburned fuel burned or possibly steam but you would have to have a bad water leak to see steam in the exhaust.

Black smoke is too rich a mixture. At tractor pulls you will see massive amounts of black smoke from the tractors exhaust pipe because they set the IP to inject much higher than normal amounts of fuel for maximum power.

Blue smoke is almost from an engine that burns lubricating oil.

P E H
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  #11  
Old 07-26-2003, 11:29 PM
Cazzzidy
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Okkaay

I got an old millitary diesel tank mechanic over to my house, and he confirmed that the car is most certainly spewing unburned diesel fuel.

Here is my game plan:

First, I take the injectors to my mechanic for complete testing. He will make sure each is opening and closing at the correct pressure.

Next, I pull off the valve cover and investigate the timing chain. I will replace if it is slack. I will also check the condition of the cam for good measure.

Finally, I will pull the head and investigate the valves, valve seats, guides, pistons, rings, etc. I will clean up everything and replace any worn parts.

This should bringer 'er back, right? But should I investigate the injection system further?
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  #12  
Old 07-27-2003, 12:31 AM
hotskillet
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Talking P.E Haiges, thanks for setting me straight

Actually, I was thinking of tractor pulls when I thought of unburned fuel!

cheers
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  #13  
Old 07-28-2003, 03:21 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: oregon
Posts: 2,013
My 74 240 D smoked so bad I had to sideline it.I finaly adjusted IP about a quarter of an inch toward engine and presto no smoke( at least no more than my clean running SD), old Pearl is going back on insurance tomorrow.........
William Rogers......
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  #14  
Old 07-28-2003, 06:52 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Evansville, Indiana
Posts: 8,150
Cazzidy:

You need to check the actual length of the chain, not just to see if it is tight (it will be if the tensioner is good, but will still leak down eventually, and it's almost always slack when you start up....). Match the mark on the cam or thrust washer (I'll look it up in the book tonight) and read the degrees ATDC on the crank pulley.

I'd bet you are at 10 or 12, in which case you need a new chain, don't bother with an offset key. This will, incidentally, restore the injection timing, which is also late.

Dollar to a doughnut, you will suddenly have no smoke and much more power! All the fuel that is coming out as smoke right now will become horsepower, and you will have all 65 hp available for driving up hills, etc.!

Peter
__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!
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  #15  
Old 07-28-2003, 11:00 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Evansville, Indiana
Posts: 8,150
There is a thrust washer behind the cam sprocket and a line on the front cam tower. Mark is on the driver's side, upper part.

For chain stretch, it is sufficient to carefully line these up by rotating engine in normal direction of operation using the crank pulley bolt (NOT the cam bolt, please!) then reading the timing marks at the crank pulley.

Anything greater than 8 degrees, replace chain.

Peter

__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!
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