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  #1  
Old 07-31-2003, 01:00 PM
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NO MB CONTENT - Peugeot

Anyone have any opinions about Peugeot's 504 diesel in comparison say to a 300D turbo, about 82, 83.? Reliable?, Fun to own? Win a drag race? I'm thinking of picking one of these up too since I'm an old Peugeot owner from years gone by.

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Old 07-31-2003, 01:29 PM
lrg lrg is offline
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I grew up with two 504 and one 505 Pug diesels in my household at one time or another. The 504 was a reliable, great riding, comfortable car but was a slug to drive. I think a 240 would beat it in a straight line and a 300 would completely toast a 504. Whatever you do don't get a 504 with a slushbox. We had both and the stick made a huge difference in driveability, just like on the 240s. Avoid the wagon as the extra weight doesn't help either. Another factor is that the Pugs are quite a bit noiser than the Benz, especially when cold. I distinctly remember pulling next to a 300D with the 504 and being struck with how much quieter the Benz was.

Now the 505, that's another story. That was a great car in a typically Gallic way. We had a turbo and the performance difference to the 504s was night and day. It was bigger, nicer, quieter and even more comfortable. Even with that I'd have to give the nod to the 300D as being more solid feeling overall. One thing the Pugs had over the Benzs though was the suspension. I used to be able to fly over speed bumps and never feel them. No car I have ever owned since was as good. The tradeoff was that they had a fair amount of body roll in sharp bends. If you want to drive twisty roads the Benz will FEEL better, but if you're cruising around the potholes, you'll love the Pug.

Oh yeah, one other detail, the Pugs tend to rust like crazy. Typical of the French, they usually used Russian steel which as any Fiat or Alfa owner will tell you, starts to rust if it even looks at snow and salt. Be really careful to check out the rust, it's the main reason you see so few of them around today. Hope this helps.

LRG
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  #3  
Old 07-31-2003, 01:43 PM
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We had alot of the 404's and 504's at the wrecking yard I worked at in the mid-80's. YES to the rust issue!!
But of all the people coming in wanting parts for them, I always asked how they liked the car, and all of them loved the things, mostly for the comfortable ride.
Some of the engineering was kinda wierd as I remember, and some of the stuff wasn't easy to work on. Like the "torque-tube" drive shaft set-up.
Then there was the 3 lug-bolts per wheel
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  #4  
Old 07-31-2003, 02:18 PM
Kylepavao2
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Hmm

I always loved the style of the 505, and wanted one before I found the 240D. Unfortunately, parts are a ***** to get, no places carry them, even some of the foreign auto parts places, they have no company support in the US anymore, and apparently they rust quite badly. There is a place about 3 towns up from me, the guy is one of the few remaining Peugeot mechanics, he has about 15 of them, most are dead I assume, I just see them sitting there. He drives a white 505 gas wagon, and his son has a 405 MI 16 sedan. Their cars look very good.

Argueably, some of the most comfortable seats I've sat in, quality leather used, interior like a big lasy boy sofa, back seat like a big couch. Extremely comfortable, but not as durable as the "orthopedic" MB tex that survives nuclear holocausts.

Overall Peugeot: More comfortable, less solid and reliable.
Mercedes-Benz: More reliable and solid, not as comfortable.
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  #5  
Old 07-31-2003, 03:10 PM
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peugeot diesels

i had an 82 505s turbodiesel - interior was great , always started even in the cold. it leaked a bit.. (power steering fluid/coolant/etc)
otherwise a nice riding car. had to trade it when i got the benz after a pretty bad crash
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Last edited by 84300DT; 07-31-2003 at 03:27 PM.
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Old 07-31-2003, 03:38 PM
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I had a 1982 604 Turbo Diesel. Beautiful car, luxurious interior, superb styling, but the cooling system was flaky. I totaled it in 1990 in Dallas...a sad day.
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  #7  
Old 07-31-2003, 06:06 PM
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I grew up in Europe in the '60's and a good buddy of mine was a Peugeot freak, starting with 403's, then 404's, and on to 504's. My experience was they were a very rugged machine, wrapped in a flimsy array of knobs, levers, and so on for operating the various "features" like windows, doors, blinkers and the gears. They had a really wierd shift pattern on the 4 speed column shifter, but a pretty rugged transmission as it was pretty routine for me and other Peugeot neophytes to grab first when we were hunting for third.

In general they quickly seemed to deteriorate to a fixed level stuff not working, and then stayed there without getting worse for a long time. If you could live with quirky window winders and blinker stalks, really bizzare windshield wipers and few other things, the engines and transmissions ran for a long time.

The cooling systems were a little weak, so my buddy took a Buick radiator from a GI's junked car and put it in his Peugeot 404 wagon. The hood wouldn't close over the radiator cap so he cut a hole in the hood for it. The car never overheated and the cap sticking out of the hood gave it a unique look. When coming home from a skiing trip he lost control coming down a hill in Austria near St. Anton and ran head on into a VW K-70 sedan (remember those?). No one was hurt and there was really little damage but the Buick radiator had a big hole in it about 2/3 of the way up. We pinched off the water passages running to it as best we could with needle nosed pliers and filled it up with water. We made it back to Munich without any trouble or sign of overheating, but it took about a gallon of water so I figure our sealing method was a little faulty. I think he left it that way for several years.

Anyway, if you can get used to the blinker being on the wrong side, and needing an occasional coaxing to work, the deficient wipers that never seem to remember the switch to turn them on is connected to the wiper motor, as well as the many other "extras" that just break off and never work again, a Peugeot is very reliable machine for making wheels roll. That wagon was the same vehicle I had my encounter with a felled pine tree on an old road to some ruins one night that I wrote up.

Good luck, Jim
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Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)
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  #8  
Old 08-01-2003, 05:58 AM
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So THIS is where old Peugeot lovers go!

I had several 504 gassers--I wish my 240D was as fast.
The ride!---I used to superintend building of houses. We developed a lot of old cornfields. I distinctly remember having to catch my survey crew one day--they were in a Suburban 4X4---picking their way across an old corn field. The corn had been cut and harvested, but there were many furrows. The Suburban couldn't go faster than walking speed or it shook everyone inside too much. I caught them quite easily--driving at 30-40mph with no noticeable discomfort.
I can also remember my first Peugeot test drive. I accidently hit a break in the pavement at too high a speed, and braced myself, wqaiting for the road shock I KNEW was coming. It never came! I was amazed and "accidently" repeated it several more times.
Yes, they corner on their door handles.
I worked on several 504 diesels--replacing head gaskets--that seemed to be their weak point. There was a feature on the injection pumps that I thought was neat--an accumulator was plumbed into the injection circut that acted to retard the timing when at idle. It noticeably quieted the diesel clatter.
Too bad they were saddled by such a poor importer/ distributor.
Also the typically french attitude always seemed to be--"You Americans do not deserve our fine cars--if you behave we may deign to allow you to purchase one"
Remeber the only allowable antifreeze was their antigel at about $7/ Qt!
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  #9  
Old 08-01-2003, 06:29 AM
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If someone needs parts for Peugot, a good source is Euro Car Parts in the UK. They're on the web and will send you a catalog. They export around the world. They specialize in parts for all European cars and commercial vehicles.
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  #10  
Old 08-01-2003, 05:02 PM
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I have had a number of Peugeots and love the ride. A new 504D in 1980 and several 505TDs latter. The MB is a vastly superior car in every regard but the Peugeots do hold their strange attraction. I used to get parts and a wealth of information from Brian Holm (Peugeot Holm) in Plainfield VT 802 454-7132. This is an old address so do not know for sure if it is still good but you might try. Good Luck!
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  #11  
Old 10-09-2003, 09:28 PM
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I hope this reply isn't too late. I've owned 4 Peugeots in my life (starting with an 81 505 Turbo Diesel) and I had a favorite uncle who owned them since the '50s (both in Europe and in the US). He passed away in '75 but apparently left me the genetic code for loving these cars. The only reason I don't drive one now is that I cannot find one to buy!

I've also owned a 505 gas wagon (not a very good car because it turns out it was actually built on the Peugeot light TRUCK chassis, not the sedan chassis and it rode like a truck and because the tranny was a 3 speed auto but geared for trucks, it rev'd at about 4k RPM at 65 -- very, very noisy). My last one was an '87 gas turbo. It was unbelievably FAST but came with "sport" seats and lowered suspension, so the ride was never up to Peugeot comfort standards, in my opinion. I finally walked away from it about a year ago after spending $2k on the engine but then the tranny went out.

As for parts availability, the internet has really helped that situation out a lot. I started using a shop/parts house in the Calif bay area. Their prices were really, really good. If anyone needs their address I'm sure I can find it with a little trying.

The best one I owned, by far, was an '82 505 Turbo Diesel. It was very reliable, ran great, and was incredibly comfortable. The great thing about diesels, of course, is that they will cruise all day at 80 mph at 1500 rpm. They are surprisingly quiet at speed and get great gas mileage, too.

At one time there was a mechanic shop in Salem, OR called French Auto World (it was actually more of a wrecking yard). He had a 504 sedan but had installed a 505 turbo diesel engine. It was a very, very nice car. If I had my dream car, it would be to put the 505 gas turbo engine in a regular 505 sedan. That way you'd have speed AND comfort.

The biggest problem that Peugeot had in the U.S.A. (IMHO) was their god-awful dealer network. There weren't many "Peugeot dealers" but there were a LOT of Ford dealers that sold Peugeot, Chevy dealers that sold Peugeot... you get the picture. They didn't train their techs very well and Americans got very frustrated with the little things that went wrong. In my experience, most of what went wrong was stuff that was added for the U.S. market (lots of electrical switches, air conditioning, cruise control units, that kind of thing). Also Peugeots take a bit of regular servicing, which American drivers/owners tend not to keep up on. By the time Peugeot really got their reliability up to par, it was too late (the market had already soured on them) and they pulled out of the U.S. market.

It's interesting to note that if you look at the Peugeot corporate web site, what you notice is that you can buy a Peugeot anywhere in the world EXCEPT the U.S.A. and Canada. They are still incredibly popular not only in Europe but also the middle east and also Africa. They're really durable, comfortable autos.

Thanks for letting me rant. I do like my "new" old MB 73 280C but the Peugeot (in my book) is a much, much better car -- but that is probably an unfair comparison, since there is a 10 year difference in engineering know-how between the two. I remember in the early 80s Road & Track did a comparison of the 300D and the Peugeot 505. The MB came out on top, but not by a lot. I always thought, though, that a more fair comparison would have been the 240D vs. the 505, because the 300D cost SO much more than a 505. I always thought the 240D was more in its price league. In that comparison, I do feel that the 505 was a much better car.

Catrinus

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