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  #1  
Old 08-10-2003, 01:25 PM
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Location: SOUTH JERSEY
Posts: 196
Angry help 92 2.5 turbo. at dealer Need advice ASAP

1992 2.5 turbo diesel 145k

car has had a rough idle issue.. swapped the following from my other 92 with no improvement.
5 new glow plugs
swapped the following
pre-glow-relay
egr valve
Vacuum control valve
vacuum Dampers
Pressure control flap
Pressure control flap vacuum actuator
Aneroid compensator (ALDA)
Boost pressure control valve vacuum actuator
Pressure sensor (EDS)
Electromagnetic actuator, electronic Idle speed control (ELR)
EGR switchover valve
Boost pressure control switchover valve
Pressure control flap switchover valve
EGR vacuum transducer
Boost pressure control/pressure control flap vacuum transducer
mass air flow sensor
computers behind false blukhead behind battery
all above items switched are exact part #'s

still the cold idle and rough -loud engine symptoms are there..
car is very sluggish and has poor pedal resonse as compared to my other 92...
turbo charger is kicking in kickdowns are slow especailly with ac on but cardoes get out of its own way but is very loud at idle..
replaced delivery valve 0 rings and pressure valve seals and torqued to 30Nm as per specs 3 times.. bled all air out of sytem and have driven 500 miles with car but still no improvement.

car is at dealer now first they had to clear out all of the codes in the computer that I inflicted and my local Mech...

they want to check the ignition pumpo timing and the crankshaft timing..

I hope it is just that... Im thinking it could be the start of fuel delivey timing or even the IP calibration..

dealer said if its not the timing issue than its the PUMP!~

should I let the dealer repair or replace or refurb the pmp at 85 an hour plus parts??

or should I let my local MB mechanic non dealer at 72 an hour who has connections for pump recore-replacements..

both will warrant for a year..

am i missing anything in my swaps or should I pull my pants down now? hehe

car is at cherry hill mercedes right now.. tech has told me I self inflicted numerous codes myself and also the mb mech i took it too did too.. he didnt have all the tools or meters to check the rack timing
seems like rack is searching for idle..
she runs roughly and loudly.. no air in lines New Inline and spin on filters..

ive attached vaccum illust

any help or advice from anyone is truly apprecaited

any idea of what kinda cash I will have to lay out for a reman or refurb pump ?

yikes!
Attached Thumbnails
help 92 2.5 turbo. at dealer Need advice ASAP-vacuum.jpg  
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1994 S-350 6cyl Turbo Diesel 158k

1998 300d 6 cyl Turbo Diesel 143K

1993 2.5 124 Turbo-Diesel 236

1990 2.5 124 Turbo-Diesel 228k

1983 SL-500 EURO W/HEATED SEATS 40K

SOLD 1977 Jaguar XJ6 Coupe Antique Roadster 85K

SOLD 1993 2.6 6 cyl 190 E 150k

SOLD 1992 2.5 124 Turbo-Diesel 204k

RIP 1992 124 300 TD 265K OIL PUMP QUIT @ 85MPH
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  #2  
Old 08-10-2003, 01:53 PM
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Location: Soperton, Ga. USA
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I would get a compression test before I pulled the fuel injection pump.
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  #3  
Old 08-10-2003, 01:56 PM
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Location: Evansville, Indiana
Posts: 8,150
The idle control system on that pump is somewhat sensitive, and will cause idle problems if bad.

However, it WON"T cause running problems, it only controls the rack position for idle, I think. Unless it is full electronic control (unlikely -- I think the electronic controls are for boost and resonance flap position).

Having the injection timing off will cause problems, so will bad injectors or dead lifters.

Peter
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1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!
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  #4  
Old 08-10-2003, 03:41 PM
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Compression..

dealer already did compression check at first they thought it could be head gasket too..
__________________
1994 S-350 6cyl Turbo Diesel 158k

1998 300d 6 cyl Turbo Diesel 143K

1993 2.5 124 Turbo-Diesel 236

1990 2.5 124 Turbo-Diesel 228k

1983 SL-500 EURO W/HEATED SEATS 40K

SOLD 1977 Jaguar XJ6 Coupe Antique Roadster 85K

SOLD 1993 2.6 6 cyl 190 E 150k

SOLD 1992 2.5 124 Turbo-Diesel 204k

RIP 1992 124 300 TD 265K OIL PUMP QUIT @ 85MPH
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  #5  
Old 08-10-2003, 04:23 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Evansville, Indiana
Posts: 8,150
If it is indeed the pump, get a rebuild from Bosch, it's cheaper than having one rebuilt. Runs about $1200. (Ouch!!)

Peter
__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!
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  #6  
Old 08-11-2003, 12:18 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,141
I've always heard Pacific fuel injector service was legendary. I thought rebuilds were around $800 for some reason.

Dealers are parts changers-they don't have the tools or skills to rebuild a IP. If your friendly with the dealership-maybe they will consider giving you the IP at wholesale.

???? How about it just being the torquing on the IP from the fuel lines. These have a real specific torquing instructions and sometimes you must do it several times to get it right. And from my experience, mechanics rarely follow proceedures!


Bet the other shop was more 617 familar. If you don't do it right- it warps the IP and you get rough idle.


Michael
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Michael McGuire
83 300d
01 vw A4 TDI
66 Chevy Corsa
68 GMC V6 w/oD
86 300E
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  #7  
Old 08-11-2003, 12:35 AM
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Location: colorado
Posts: 154
Injection pump?

What codes did they pull? It should lead them to the problem, diagnostics run four pages, I have the engine manual on that car, I would be happy to look up the codes for you, on the other hand if you need a pump call either CALIBERE or Fletcher Jones they will give wholesale pricing on a BOSCH rebuild, I have heard mixed reviews about Gus at Pacific Injection, also if you send yours out to be rebuilt send your injectors out to be tested, try to have them calibrated to within 5 bar, 10 bar is spec makes a noticable difference. Good luck
Ron
1985 300TDT
1993 300 D
1998 E300 sold
1999 E320 AWD WAGON
2003 E55 AMG
2004 E320 CDI on order
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  #8  
Old 08-11-2003, 01:01 AM
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Location: SOUTH JERSEY
Posts: 196
Havent

still waiting to hear from dealer...

car wasnt looked at until 3pm on friday .. even though i had an 8am appt..

i dropped it off 2 days early too! to diagnose it cold as hell!

I have 2 other turbo 2.5's one with 198k and another with 203k ... replaced those o-rings and pressure valve seals too due to leaking with no probs... thoise pumps are fine.. I thought these pumps were indestructable especailly with only 145k on this one



I will ask to see the codes!
__________________
1994 S-350 6cyl Turbo Diesel 158k

1998 300d 6 cyl Turbo Diesel 143K

1993 2.5 124 Turbo-Diesel 236

1990 2.5 124 Turbo-Diesel 228k

1983 SL-500 EURO W/HEATED SEATS 40K

SOLD 1977 Jaguar XJ6 Coupe Antique Roadster 85K

SOLD 1993 2.6 6 cyl 190 E 150k

SOLD 1992 2.5 124 Turbo-Diesel 204k

RIP 1992 124 300 TD 265K OIL PUMP QUIT @ 85MPH
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  #9  
Old 08-11-2003, 01:56 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: colorado
Posts: 154
Injection pump?

Well since you have swapped so many other components how about switching one of the good pumps and seeing if this fixes the problem, I have done it on a 123 about 3 hours, not sure on a 124, but this would answer the question, good luck
Ron
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  #10  
Old 08-11-2003, 10:12 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: SOUTH JERSEY
Posts: 196
Thumbs up dont

I dont have the correct tools or Patience.~

My E.I.D. would act up~~

Explosive Impulse Disorder!

heard from dealer today..

they are going to check timing with drip tube method and check rack and camshaft timing .. they think they are out of synch,,


just hope its not the pump!
__________________
1994 S-350 6cyl Turbo Diesel 158k

1998 300d 6 cyl Turbo Diesel 143K

1993 2.5 124 Turbo-Diesel 236

1990 2.5 124 Turbo-Diesel 228k

1983 SL-500 EURO W/HEATED SEATS 40K

SOLD 1977 Jaguar XJ6 Coupe Antique Roadster 85K

SOLD 1993 2.6 6 cyl 190 E 150k

SOLD 1992 2.5 124 Turbo-Diesel 204k

RIP 1992 124 300 TD 265K OIL PUMP QUIT @ 85MPH
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  #11  
Old 08-11-2003, 11:17 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,141
Dealership should be shot-

All new cars can use the electronic measurement or at least the pin. I think the pin tool is only about $15... much quicker and more accurate.



Michael
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Michael McGuire
83 300d
01 vw A4 TDI
66 Chevy Corsa
68 GMC V6 w/oD
86 300E
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  #12  
Old 08-12-2003, 10:22 PM
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Location: Milford, DE
Posts: 1,427
If the dealership wants to check the timing on this engine via the drip tube method you had better have the car towed to another dealer.

It sounds to me like your EDS boost control system is not working correctly. Have you checked the turbo boost on the engine? Spec is about 12-13 PSI at full throttle/full load. I would be surprised if your problem was the pump.

Tim
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  #13  
Old 08-13-2003, 09:56 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Evansville, Indiana
Posts: 8,150
If the electronic timing and the drip tube timing are different, it would indicate a damaged cam on the IP, requiring a rebuild. It would also cause rough idle from variable output and timing between the cylinders.

Peter
__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!
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  #14  
Old 08-14-2003, 11:27 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: SOUTH JERSEY
Posts: 196
Thumbs up REPAIRED!!

well the car is finnally fixed!!

took to dealer who used an impulse counter
codes as follows..
code 3 valve air flow sensor
code 5 egr valve vacuum transducer or fault in egr control circuit
glow plugs ok
erased all codes and test drove.. restested resulted in no codes
checked injection pump timing off 6 degrees
checked camshaft timing off 9 degrees
teeth on injection pump ok
install new timing chain and tensioner
cam timing and injection pump timing are now right on..

total cost labor 552.50 includes 6.5 hours with chain and testing
parts 240.35
tax 47.57
10% mbca disc 26.35

total job 840.42

glad this nightmare is over...

dealer said to take it easy for first 1000 miles and change oil then:p
__________________
1994 S-350 6cyl Turbo Diesel 158k

1998 300d 6 cyl Turbo Diesel 143K

1993 2.5 124 Turbo-Diesel 236

1990 2.5 124 Turbo-Diesel 228k

1983 SL-500 EURO W/HEATED SEATS 40K

SOLD 1977 Jaguar XJ6 Coupe Antique Roadster 85K

SOLD 1993 2.6 6 cyl 190 E 150k

SOLD 1992 2.5 124 Turbo-Diesel 204k

RIP 1992 124 300 TD 265K OIL PUMP QUIT @ 85MPH
Reply With Quote
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