I disagree. PEH hits the nail on the head when he suggests that few Americans would sink $50K into a VW SUV even though it sports the delicious 550ft.lb. V10 turbodiesel. I'd love to have one, but there is no way I'd commit that kind of cash to a VW. However, I'd certainly consider the new Passat with the 2.0 TDI with the 134HP/247LB/Ft turbodiesel for around $24K.

__________________
2002 500SL(Black/Black)
1992 300SE(Black/Black)
1992 190E 2.3(White/Navy)
1999 VW Jetta TDI(Pearl Green)
1986 SAAB 900 Base 3 door(White)
1983 Porsche 911SC(Chiffon)
1977 VW Scirocco(DiamondSilver)

The Toureg is outta my league anyway, but $50K for the baby brother to the Porsche Cayenne, and a TDI diesel to boot!! VeeDub will sell 'em. Look at the Hummer H2. It's around $53K, and all that thing is, is a slab sided Chevy Tahoe.

Several points to make here:

Most used '98-'99 W-210 E-300 DTs are priced way up there, with some examples being priced as high as $37,000.

I do know of one '98 E-300 DT example in TX. that is priced at $17,900.
The car is Glacier White with only 115K miles. Picture looks good!

How is a new car that will be priced in the low to mid $50Ks going to drop the price of used '98 or '99 E-300s?

I just paid $28K for my '99 E-300 DT, and there were no other cars listed for sale in So Cal.
The closest other listed Starmark Certified car was in Washington State.

Remember folks, there were less than 7000 examples imported in those two MYs.

1998s, only 3113

1999s, estimated to be about 3500 units

I had no idea so few came over to the USA If the OM606 was so good, why was production so short?

That figure of 3113 units for the '98s came from Neal at the MBZ office in NJ.
They didn't have a recorded number for the '99s, but someone mentioned that
3500 figure in a press release talking about the upcoming 2004 E-320 CDIs.

MBZ only sent enough cars to satisfy demand. You know the old law of 'supply and demand.'
I would guess they had difficulty selling 'em, and decided not to import the E-300s any longer for that reason?
Either that or the smog laws caught up with them. Who knows? MBZ sure did continue to build and sell 'em over yonder for sure.

Careful when trashing P.E.H.'s opinions. He's a veteran here and has helped us substantially.

Personally, the new stuff scares me on two accounts:

1. Hasn't been tested for longevity. And when paying excessive sticker prices, I want to know about longevity.

2. The price. Heck, I paid $12,900 for my entire fleet. Put 12.9 into anything and I'll guarantee mine to run further and cheaper with the 82-85's. Having said that, I know its not everyone's preference and that we all evaluate cars differently. As for me, I want longevity, safety & economy. I find the 123's nearly impossible to beat.

Don

__________________
DAILY DRIVERS:
'84 300DT 298k (Aubrey's)
'99.5 Jetta TDI IV 251k (Julie's)
'97 Jetta TDI 127k (Amber's)
'97 Jetta TDI 186k (Matt's)
'96 Passat TDI 237k (Don's
'84 300D 211k Mint (Arne- Undergoing Greasecar Conversion)

SOLD:
'82 240D 229k (Matt's - Converted-300DT w/ 4 speed

The answers are in the archives, but to save you a search I'll repeat them here. The W210 body was modified for model year 2000, and one of the changes was to lower the hoodline by an inch. The OM606 engine was too tall to fit the new body. Combine that with extremely low demand for Diesel engines and stiffer emissions regulations, and you get the demise of the MB Diesel in the US.

It is coming back for 2004 in the form of the E320 CDI, but who knows what the demand will be? I think the low demand during the 90's was at least partially Mercedes-Benz's fault, because they never advertised them. If people had known they could get an E class for $4000 less than the E320 that got better fuel mileage and needed less maintenance, then more folks might have been interested. So far I've seen no advertising for the CDI, so only the MB faithful even know about it.

Since this is really a VW thread, I'll comment about them too. Even though TDI's are selling well, I think they could do a lot better with more advertising. When was the last time you saw an ad for a TDI? In terms of price, VW does not compete well with Toyota, Honda, and Nissan. But if they would tell people about the advantages of the TDI engine, more people might me willing to pony up a few extra bucks for a Jetta.

The Touareg V10 TDI will be a very small niche player, and it's audience is probably already pretty much decided.

__________________
Rick Miley
2014 Tesla Model S
2018 Tesla Model 3
2017 Nissan LEAF
Former MB: 99 E300, 86 190E 2.3, 87 300E, 80 240D, 82 204D Euro
Chain Elongation References

I would ask you what MBZ did in the Fatherland? Did they stop installing the 3.0L diesel in the W-210 for MY 2000 and beyond over there? I don't believe they did. How much clearance does this motor need? Have you ever measured the clearance in yours just to see?
Looks to me like there would be plenty of room for a lower hood.

Regarding the alleged lack of VW TDI advertising, check out the ad on pages 37 & 38 in the September issue of Motor Trend.
Why do they need to waste money on ads when they can sell all the units they import without advertising?

Was at Capo VW today, and all the 2003 TDIs are gone.
Other areas may be different, but out here in So Cal, Capo is sold out.
Alas, we'll see no 2004 TDIs here in California.

Time will tell about the Touareg. I believe that VW will sell all the V-10s they care to import. But it may be a different story regarding the gassers!

THE 210 E CLASS WAS AVAILABLE WITH THE 6CYC TURBO DIESEL IN 2000 IN EUROPE, THE REASON THE CAR WAS NOT BROUGHT IN WAS BECAUSE IT COULD NOT MEET THE COLD START EMISSIONS CRITERIA FOR CA. AMOUNG OTHERS, I KNOW BECAUSE I HAD A 2000 ON ORDER, IN OCTOBER OF 99 THE DEALER CALLED ME TO GIVE ME THE BAD NEWS.
RECENTLY WENT THRU THE SAME EXERCISE WITH THE 2004 CDI. I ORDERED THE CAR IN JULY 03 WITH AN EXPECTED EUROPEAN DELIVERY IN NOV 03, RECEIVED A CALL FROM THE DEALER SAYING THE CAR WILL NOW BE BROUGHT INTO THE US AS A 05 MODEL IN APRIL 2004. WHEN TALKING TO MOST DEALERS THEY ARE GENERALLY CLUELESS, REALLY DISSAPOINTING. I AM GOING TO LOOK AT THE PASSAT, MY DAYS OF DEALING WITH MERCEDES ARE OVER.
RON
1985 300TDT
1993 300D
1999 E320 AWD WAGON
2003 E55 AMG

I see about four other golf TDI's in my neck of the woods. If its more power you want, pop in the Euro model injectors and an upsolute chip and you have 155hp and mondo torque. As long as you aren't flooring it there is very little loss to the delicious 48mpg you get with these cars. I've had zero problems with my car so far (only 35kmi so far)

ohcaptainron,

I agree with everything you are saying.

Never bought that "hood clearance" or lack thereof bit.
Made no sense to me then or now.

It had to be the emissions tightening that occurred in the year 2000. These are relatively old style type motors without the tuning ability that VW enjoys with the electronically contolled TDIs which were first available when, in the 1996 Passat TDIs?

Thanks for the update on when the MBZ CDIs will finally be appearing. I'm hoping that the information you were given turns out to be wrong, but I fear it is not and will prove to be correct.

Wise of you to check into the 2004 Passat TDIs. Was at Capo today, and the 2004s are in stock. But no TDIs of course. Wish we could get 'em here in CA, but they do not meet the ever tightening smog rules here (again!) so they're not to be had in CA and those four NE "copycat" states that follow the dumb California CARB rules.

Good luck!