Too expensive to manufacture right now, that's all. Will get there with time.

http://www.earthship.com/article.php?story=20041003155528840

It will have to get a lot cheaper and the infrastructure has to support diesel. Even today, diesels are more expensive. According to the article it is about 10% more. I suspect you will recoup it over the life of the vehicle. However, most people do not keep a car for 10 years.

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

We can't even get the public to accept diesels for everyday transportation. Diesel-hybrids would be a tougher sell.

Diesel is already the norm for buses. Fuel/electric hybrids perform their best in city driving. So it's only natural to adapt buses to diesel-hybrid.

Any hybrid is actually worse than regular vehicles when it comes to highway driving.

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95 E320 Cabriolet, 159K

Well, there is the price for the expensive batteries. You cannot run the car on the Everready Energizer you get in a 2000 pack from Wal*Mart. Seriously, hybrids only will pay off if you drive and plan to keep the vehicle for more than a few years. If you are going to trade it off in 3 years, I don't think you will see much of a gain, if any. Diesels are less than 10% of cars. Even if you converted them all to hybrids, you probably won't make that much of a dent in anything.

Not sure about hybrid busses. How long before you break even on the cost of conversion? Maybe it would be better to buy new to start it all again.

Why is it worse for hughway driving?

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

Mercedes-Benz announced a diesel-electric hybrid for the Vision Grand Sports Tourer last year. Information should be available on their web site.

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Rick Miley
2014 Tesla Model S
2018 Tesla Model 3
2017 Nissan LEAF
Former MB: 99 E300, 86 190E 2.3, 87 300E, 80 240D, 82 204D Euro
Chain Elongation References

http://www.germancarfans.com/spyphotos.cfm/spyphotoID/6040806.001/mercedes/1.html

However at 80K, it would be a hard sell seeing as M classes start at about 40K, give or take. I am not sure I want to pay 80K to be a test driver. They came out with the ML and in 2000 they made like several hundred to maybe a thousand changes. Generally I was advised to stay away from 98-99 models and get the 2000 models for the money. Like I said, that is a lot of coin for an untested vehicle.

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

Diesel electric hybrids are here!

Dodge is already selling its Ram 3500 in a diesel/electric hybrid configuration to fleet customers, and in 2006 we'll be seeing the Sprinter with the same basic hybrid drivetrain. I want one.

I can't find the article about it offhand, but I'll look for some links:

http://www.hybridcars.com/ram.html
http://www.daimlerchrysler.com/dccom/0,,0-5-7165-1-428612-1-0-0-0-0-0-1371-7165-0-0-0-0-0-0-0,00.html

peace,
sam

__________________
"That f***in' biodiesel is makin' me hungry."

1982 300TD Astral Silver w/ 250k (BIO BNZ)
2001 Aprilia SR50 Corsa Red w/ 5.5k (>100 MPG)

On the highway, it's all fuel-power. The electric portion doesn't kick in at all. It's just technology that's along for the ride, and not contributing anything to the powertrain. Hybrids are not for those who want to "see the USA".

I'd like to see how enthusiastic people will be when these hybrids become used cars with 90K miles. Many of us on the forum are already in tears over how complex our cars are to repair and maintain. Hybrid technology takes all that and adds another layer of complex technology. I wonder how they package these vehicles. Can these cars offer 200-300 horsepower that the public is used to having under the hood?

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95 E320 Cabriolet, 159K

Yes, hybrids earn their keep while you are in stop and go mode, so the batteries will continue to charge up.

Hybrids don't have to be complex, they just add an electric motor and what amounts to an additional differential. Yes, they have computer control, but so does every other new car sold.

I see no reason why a hybrid can't last hundreds of thousands of miles. Its just up to the car companies how they produce them. Cut corners = weak car, make the right decisions on design and materials = long lasting car. The situation is the same for regular cars an hybrids.

As to the additional power... At some point Americans are going to have to get used to having cars without 300 horsepower. Sorry! However, a properly designed hybrid system can result in a more efficient use of the power you have.

Example: In a standard engine you use the maximum power output of the car only a few percent of the time. But moving the extra mass of the cylinders, burning the extra fuel to keep it all hot, and so on wastes tons of fuel. I read a very interesting study where they attached a dynamometer to a Suzuki Hayabusa (w/ around 180 hp) and measured how much power it actually outputed while driving around town and along some highways. It never actually used its maximum available horsepower (as measured by stationary dyno), and the average horsepower used was about 30hp. However, it didn't get very good mileage because of the excess capacity.

However, in a parallel hybrid (the best kind for most uses, in my opinion), the electric motor can add torque to the system for free. Your small engine drives you around with more than enough power for your city driving (which only takes 60-100hp, as any 240D advocate can attest), and when you slam on the gas to get up the onramp or pass the crazy person, your electric motor contributes an immediate 40hp and a ton of torque. Electric motors produce lots of torque at low RPMs and can help pull you off the line and pass quickly. Thus the excess capacity of the engine is not held in the form of extra displacement, its held in the form of electrical energy. The best part about that is that there is no performance hit associated with the electric motor as there is with carrying excess displacement. Hence, the HP numbers look low, but the actual driving power of the car feels much higher. Priuses are much faster than my 300TD.

The same concept is there for things other than speed. The Dodge Ram 3500 HEV diesel/electric hybrid only gets about 15% better MPG than its regular counterpart, but the electric motor/generator provides 110v/220v service at all times without the inefficiency of an inverter. Its a truck/generator at the same time!

I've been saying this for a long time, and we are just now starting to see it: Having a 40-100hp electric motor in your vehicle can open up a lot of doors, especially in the utility vehicle world. A transfer case powered by the motor might provide your vehicle with a 100hp winch, 1 ton hydraulic crane, and 100hp of 'free' crawling torque for ripping up trees or making it over a steep hill while towing a 24' trailer. The electric motor's 'torque at low RPMs' exceeds the capacity of even the diesel engine, and can be leveraged to give a powerful tool to the operator that works with the engine on or off, and is powered by regeneration instead of performance robbing belt-driven attachments.

Anyway, the possibilities are limitless. Hybrid technology offers more than just better emissions and higher mileage, it can offer better performance and new forms of utility for work vehicles.

peace,
sam

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"That f***in' biodiesel is makin' me hungry."

1982 300TD Astral Silver w/ 250k (BIO BNZ)
2001 Aprilia SR50 Corsa Red w/ 5.5k (>100 MPG)

Phidauex, you just brought up a very good point. Lots of us who survived the Great August 2003 Blackout (and other, sometimes longer blackouts) are looking forward to when vehicles can be used as power generators for the home without having to buy a separate expensive (and noisy) power generators. The auto industry has been talking about this for sometime with regular cars, but never really went anywhere with it. Hybrids would make this a cinch.

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95 E320 Cabriolet, 159K

prev quote from wannawagon
personally i don't know why a diesel hybrid isn't being produced right now.....or something close to that



honda has an accord coming that is diesel electric with over 200 hp. price is only 30g's. what cost conservation?

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currently
[1981 300 td tdidi 165500 dark brown/palamino-Brownie-mine-3k miles of ownership
1983 240d 162+++ Anthricite grey w/ henna red interior and hella lights-wifes car-Red

the above two cars are for sale
and can be seen on the cars for sale thread here. pix also available.


240d-144+ Manilla Yellow w/ palmino interior-greasecar kit-Blondie-the college kids car

23" gt 21 speed still on original tires-still got the nubs
21" khs tandem

I love them as long as they aren't to strong. Some of my fondest growing up memories are of riding and driving around on a 3 cylinder diesel tractor all day without a cab. It also used less then half the fuel of its gas tractor of the same model and size. To bad we can't grow enough soybeans to switch over to biodiesel.

Nuclear electric is the ultimate answer. Unfortunately it is the victim of the same hysteria which caused great products like silicone breast implants, asebestos, sacchrine, red M&Ms, and the religious belief in global warming. I would like to see people have home kits and hydrogen pumping stations that turn water into hydrogen to be used in cars. Until then diesel is a great choice! I filled up for 1.99 a gallon this morning. I hope it is good. Best price I know of in metro Atlanta. Swifty Serve on Chastain off I-75.

I tried to get my wife interested in a e300 td. It is going to be a project.

Jim

I find it interesting that Jim put silicone breast implants on top of the great products list!

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95 E320 Cabriolet, 159K

Lol I was trying to make a point I thought everyone would understand. Plus it is the classic junk science issue everyone knows about. I think breast enhancement is a waste of money but it doesn't stop me from admiring the results

This is absolutely not true. In the Prius, the hybrid system absolutey DOES work on the highway in assist mode. Instead of the computer adding alot of throttle on a slight grade, it will add assistance from the electric motor. On downhill stretches, it'll shut off all fuel and spark delivery, and use electric only on the highway, despite still "turning" the engine to keep the generator from overspeeding. It will also use the electric motor to assist in pulling heavy grades. I've taken my Prius through the Eisenhower Tunnel on I-70, and was out in the left lane passing the overwhelming majority of traffic, despite having no turbo, and only 76 hp available out of the engine. I never depleted the battery either, as at some revs, the battery will actually be charged while the electric motor is assisting the engine, hauling up steep grades.

As for complexity, I don't see it. I've gotten rid of the power steering pump (electric power steering), the starter ( MG1 does this), the alternator (MG1 also does this), the torque convertor, the clutch, the viscouous coupling (the prius has no "slip" couplings at all in the drivetrain design). The "CVT transmission" is only a CVT in market speak. In reality the system consists of one planetary gearset in which the electric motors work in such a way as to "mimick" a CVT in operation. With no clutches or bands, the electric motors can put precise input into how the power is transferred from the engine, down to the wheels.

As far as enthusiasm, for cars with 90k miles on them. The model of Prius that I have, is already developing a track record in excess of 200,000 miles without touching any part of the car. I've personally read of only one battery replacement, and that owner had 207,000 miles on his car. As with any well built car, it will come down to how well the maintenance was kept up on it.

As for the Honda, their system assists on the highway as well, but their single motor system cannot simultaneously charge while assisting the engine, so it's alot more possible to deplete the battery, and end up in the slow lane. It is also unable to move the car under battery power alone.