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  #1  
Old 09-29-2003, 03:29 PM
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Injection timing the OM617 turbodiesel - illustrated

Go to Cars - Technical - Motor on my web site.

Enjoy!

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  #2  
Old 09-29-2003, 03:40 PM
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Thomas,
Nicely Done! Thanks for sharing!

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  #3  
Old 09-29-2003, 04:50 PM
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So, Thomas, what's the upgrade policy on the CD?
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  #4  
Old 09-29-2003, 05:33 PM
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Smile Dave

It's a loss leader, so probably annually!
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  #5  
Old 09-29-2003, 09:40 PM
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that is a great pictorial thanks i will certainly use on my 300tdt next weekend

can this be used on a 616 240d motor?
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  #6  
Old 09-29-2003, 11:29 PM
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Once again, job well done. Very professional and methodically organized pictorial, too.

Always nice to see Bertie the Border Terrier in slide 25.


Did you notice an increase in power and / or fuel economy since you completed the job?

If so, how much?
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  #7  
Old 09-29-2003, 11:52 PM
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Paul

Thank you.

I prefer to answer your question after several tanks of fuel have passed through the engine to minimize errors in the data.

I'll post later.
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  #8  
Old 09-29-2003, 11:55 PM
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Madsen

The injection timing device will work on the 616 injection pump.

I'm not sure, however, whether 15 degrees ATDC is right for your engine. Maybe others here can advise?
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  #9  
Old 09-30-2003, 08:13 PM
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Great pictorial! Just a few comments/edits:

1- You can get the fancy RIV tool for $200-$225, last time I checked, if you know the cheapest source (email me for details). This tool comes in VERY VERY handy if you're messing with the timing chain or doing major work, where the pump can get more than a few degrees out of time. That way you can spin the crank while watching for the light to come on and not risk damage. It even alerted me that I had the camshaft 180 degrees out while replacing my valve stem seals. (long story, don't ask.)

2- The lock pin tool works on all OM60x engines, and certain OM617.95x engines. There are a few variants in the 1981-1983 range that may not have the 17mm hex plug. CHECK YOUR PUMP before ordering the tool! If you don't have the hex plug, you can't use the tool, and MUST use the "wet" methods. AFAIK, no OM616 engines can use this tool (at least no USA models).

3- Spec is 15.0 degrees ATDC, +/- 1.0 degrees. I found that on my OM603, I picked up a little MPG setting it at 13.5-14.0 degrees. I'd recommend setting it at 14.0. The newer OM60x engine spec is 14.0, +0.5, I think.

4- The tool probably won't "pop" into place on it's own. It has a slot, and the slot must latch onto a tooth/nub on the internal flywheel. This requires you to gently turn the tool shaft (with the red cap) as you ease the engine over, or as you wiggle the pump around. It's not hard, but don't expect it to pop in by itself (might happen but won't always).

5- I think I disagree with the "correction factor" based on timing chain stretch. That would essentially set the IP to match the camshaft, not the crank. I believe (?) the IP timing should always match the crank. If you want to fix the cam timing on a 617, order one of the offset cam keys. This leaves the crank & IP settings alone. For a 60x with a stretched chain, there are no offset keys, you must replace the chain (if it is 4 degrees stretched or more). Otherwise, set it at 14.0 (or 15.0) based on the crank indicator, regardless of what the chain stretch is (IMO!!). Also note that on the 60x engine, the TDC indicator can move withing a 3 degree range if the lock bolt is loosened. On my engine it was off 1 degree (verified with a dial gauge on the piston while the head was off.) Hopefully this isn't a common problem.

6- If you replace the timing chain due to stretch, you will have to re-time the pump, if pump timing was correct with the stretched chain! The new chain will advance the pump timing by half the chain stretch. Example: Your chain is stretched 4 degrees, pump is 15.0. Roll in a new chain, stretch is now zero, pump is now at 13.0. Check chain stretch FIRST, replace if necessary (60x), or adjust with an offset key (617). Then set the IP timing. This is a miserable enough job that you don't want to do it twice.

7- NEVER EVER EVER rotate the engine, or IP, with the lock tool engaged! You may cause severe damage to the pump internals. This is where the expensive RIV tool is nice, you don't need to worry about this.


Here's a photo of the RIV "A-B" tool:
http://www.W124performance.com/images/OM603_injection/IP__RIV_tool.jpg

Here's a photo of the lock tool:
http://www.w124performance.com/images/OM603_injection/IP__lock_tool.jpg


Best regards,
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1994 E420 - 145kmi (Blondie)
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Last edited by gsxr; 07-16-2006 at 01:45 AM.
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  #10  
Old 09-30-2003, 11:28 PM
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I've always wanted to "reverse engineer" the RIV tool, since it looks so simple externally. I'm sure there is more than meets the eye, internally, but what? Had it apart?
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  #11  
Old 10-01-2003, 11:54 AM
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The wiring and "light box" are quite simple, I believe. The main cost is the screw-in fitting. It's a very tight tolerance item, with two spring-loaded metal contact pieces that are electrically separated, embedded inside a round nylon housing. One contact triggers light A, the other light B. When both are lit, the internal flywheel tang is dead center on the two contacts so they both are triggered. Nifty piece. Would be quite hard to replicate, IMO.

Price in Europe, in Euro $'s, is $151:
http://wwwsg.daimlerchrysler.com/Projects/wi/cda/etpl?ETNR=W617589082100&from=query&etpl_lang=01

Order from speed-autoteile.com (in Germany) and you can probably get it for +/- $200 USD or so - I think.
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Dave M.
Boise, ID

1997 E420 - 155kmi (Bugeyes)
1994 E420 - 145kmi (Blondie)
1993 500E - 193kmi (Lollipop)
1992 400E - 189kmi (Stinky Dirty)
Check out my website photos, documents, and movies!
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  #12  
Old 10-06-2003, 12:43 PM
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Suginami and gsxr

Paul S -

Some feedback on fuel consumption.

After several tanks of fuel, consumption is down 10%. Mixed city and highway (75-80 mph) with a/c on returns 25 mpg compared with 23 mpg before the adjustment.

One other data point. Coming back on I-80 the other day, I put 491 non-stop miles at a cruise setting of 79 mph on one tank, no a/c, and got 26.8 mpg, this just after going over 200,000 miles on the engine. The car runs at 105 mph at 4750 rpm, with a few more mph to come.


Dave M -

Thanks for your thoughtful response.

That electrical tool sounds super, but it's too much for me to justify, absent major IP work.

As for the 'correction factor', as I am not adjusting for chain stretch with Woodruff keys, it seems to me that you want the IP synchronised with valve timing rather than with the crank, thus getting injection at the correct point. I take your point about the 2:1 ratio of cam:crank degrees, and will update my piece.

Your point about not rotating the engine or IP with the tool engaged is right on, and addressed in my piece. I only install the tool after setting the crank, which remains untouched thereafter. With the injection lines removed, twisting the IP (after loosening the lock nuts) about its axis is very easy and I found getting the tool to click in was both simple and obvious, at which point all twisting ceases! You make an interesting point about twisting the red buttoned shaft to get it to go all the way in - I'll add that.

Thanks for correcting my error on the use of the tool with the 616 engine - I should have written it's OK on the 606, noy the 616.

Last edited by Thomaspin; 10-06-2003 at 03:30 PM.
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  #13  
Old 10-06-2003, 01:31 PM
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Dave,

Not to hijack Thomas' thread, but; just as ignition timing has moved from static (really old timers) to dynamic (powered xenon timing lights), I'd think this might be the wave of the future: http://www.autotestsys.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=ATS&Product_Code=FER-764&Category_Code=HT

Anyone tried one?

PS: there are different sized connectors that fit our injector lines.
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  #14  
Old 10-06-2003, 01:43 PM
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Thomas,

Sounds good - thanks! Glad to see you got a MPG increase. I didn't on my 617, but I did on both my 603's. The electric tool does require some extra justification, that's for sure, no argument there. I'm still thinking IP injection should be related to the crank, irrelevant of cam timing, but until we find some data to support one method or the other, it's just an opinion difference.



007:

Ah, the old clamp-type tool. The problem with these is that you don't know what to set it at! You need to set one car - any OM61x/60x diesel - with the lock tool or RIV tool. Then attach the pulse-type tool and read the output. You can't use the "15 ATDC" number with this tool, they're using totally different reference points that are not related. If someone would buy the pulse tool, and post what the magic readings are, we could use those on most all other MB diesels.


Best regards,
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Boise, ID

1997 E420 - 155kmi (Bugeyes)
1994 E420 - 145kmi (Blondie)
1993 500E - 193kmi (Lollipop)
1992 400E - 189kmi (Stinky Dirty)
Check out my website photos, documents, and movies!
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  #15  
Old 10-06-2003, 03:30 PM
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Well, now would be the right time for me to purchase the Ferret, having just done the tune-up, but I cannot justify the expense for something I would use so infrequently. I have searched everywhere and cannot find the right setting, as Dave points out.

However, if anyone out there is interested in buying one and mailing it to me, I would be glad to return it with the calibration setting, based on my newly tuned (and well running) 617 motor.

Dave - the more I think of it, the more I like the idea of the 3 litre 6 cylinder diesel in the W126. Quieter, as you have pointed out than the five, all the benefits of the mid-run W126 enhancements, a little more power, and doesn't explode like the 3.5 litre. Plus, of course, hydraulic valves, obviating the 15k mile adjustment, but I assume you still have to pop the valve cover to determine chain stretch. What's the key test to determine if the engine has overheated - compression? And why is the six so prone to overheating?

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