Emmy:
I think that sounds about the same. We don't use that vehicle heavily - approximately 1000 mile a month by one or more of my relatives. But I definitely agree with Larry above. I have switched oil brands and weights many times with this vehicle because of Michigan winters, but I usually change immediately at 3000 miles and I have never run more than 4,500 miles (that included a trip from Michigan to Philadelphia then on to Boca Raton).

Larry,

Are you suggesting that timing chains shouldn't stretch at all with frequent oil changes? My chain measured 3 degrees of stretch at 168 K miles and I don't seem to be burning oil. I thought this was pretty good, figuring on keeping an eye on the stretching and replacing the chain and tensioners and chain rails when it got worse.

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Robert W. Roe
1984 300SD 169K mi

Larry:
If I am wrong, why does Mercedes recommend 10,000 mile oil changes on some of the new models? I think they realize that with the new super oils (synthetics) 3000 mile oil changes are as outdated as the model T Ford.

By the way, you didn't say how much oil your car used or what brand and type of oil you use.

My car gets used mostly on long trips so that alone calls for less frequent oil changes. Actual number of miles isn't the only thing that determines when it is time to change the oil.

P E H

PE brings up a point that I have been wondering about. Many of the posts on this site propose that, once the timing chain has stretched by a few degrees, it must be replaced. If that is necessary, why does MB offer offset woodruff keys that can offset the timing problem without replacing the chain?

Thanks for any clarification.

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Ted
1979 240D

It seems like there will never be a consensus on oil changes. But I agree with Larry Bible that you should change your oil frequently. A lot of trash builds up on the interior surfaces of a motor as it accumulates miles. Especially in the bottom end. That can't be good for cooling or proper lubrication. The inside of a motor is a pretty intense environment - for synthetic oil or any other kind of oil. Why not take advantage of the cleansing function of frequent oil changes, when they're not that difficult or expensive?
Harvey

The key to low oil consumption on gas models may be an eventual valve job; mine was done on 87 420 SEL at 202K when I bought the car. Since then, uses little to no oil between 3,000K oil changes (total 227K miles so far).

JoeB

Well guys/gals heres my $.02. Anything made of metal (disregarding the application) will over time, when subject to tension, heat cycles, shock loads, change it's dimensions. If, considering the application, no or limited lubrication is provided, it will change dimensions quicker or fail. A timing chain is a metallic device with many small moving parts, albeit, they are strong. No matter what you use for oil, given the environment they live in, they will eventually get longer. This is the nature of the beast. If just changing oil was the ticket, then theoretically, nothing would wear out. (we know this isn't true). So, having said all of that, it is my belief that wear on these devices can be minimized by optimizing the operating environment (oil changes, proper maintainance), the actual physical change in dimension is more a function of the application and load stresses involved. In other words, they will all get longer, some faster than others. Whew, another term paper out of the way..

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Jeff L
1987 300e
1989 300e
1987 BMW 325

P.E.

Benz and many other manufacturers are very comfortable with extended term oil changes. Yes, with the improvement of lubricants, additives and the engines themselves, you will have no trouble "getting by" with 10K or maybe even greater oil changes. I drive cars way, way beyond the point where a sane person would get tired of them. I am certainly a 1%er in this regard. You could probably change oil on 15K intervals and easily make it to the point where statistically the new car owner would get tired of it and get something else.

I reitirate, the grit and acids only come out with oil changes. If you want to get EXTREMELY high mileage from your engines, change oil hot and change oil often.

Mercedes Benz as well as every other manufacturer would love to see you trade once a year, even with that in mind, their long oil change intervals will get you to fairly high mileage with no problems.

Robert Roe,

Yes, I am suggesting that very frequent oil change intervals will prevent timing chain stretch. Again the grit and acids are the culprit. Your engine is doing well, but my opinion, and what I've seen with my oil change fanaticism, has been a very little amount of stretch. I don't know for sure, and there are several types of timing chain tensioning systems, but there are probably as many problems from the rails and tensioners as the chains themselves. This may account for the woodruff key. The pros who have seen a lot of failures could probably shed light.

Thanks,

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Larry Bible
'84 Euro 240D, 516K miles
'88 300E 5 Speed
'81 300D Daughter's Car
Over 800,000 miles in
Mercedes automobiles

a family friend has a 85 (i think) 560SEL.. the car has about 277k miles... and its still running strong... but the body needs a bit work.. hehe..

__________________
Turk..
00 S500 W220
93 300SE W140
01 C 240 W203
86 SVO Mustang (Turbo Pwr'd.. hehe)

I'm going to put my lead underwear on first, but here's my thoughts on oil change etc.

The europeans think we are terribly wasteful when we change your oil every 3000 miles. I've seen posts from them indicating they run 10 to 20000 miles all the time, with older MBs with no problem. They insist that we (americans) are nuts about this oil change thing, and a lot of it is just a way to sell more oil to the american public.

My experience is that it makes a big difference what type of driving you do. Short trips are the worse, so changing oil at 3000 on a car that never really gets to warm up is probably about right. But if you run your car every day to a point where the engine is fully warmed up, I fully believe 5000 miles is fine.

I ran an 85 saab to 250,000 with changes every 5 to 7000 miles. It burned no oil. I took the valve cover off at 200,000 miles and it was as clean as could be.

By the way, it had the original timing chain in it. Saab recommends replacing it at 150,000 miles, but I never did.

So I change my oil every 5 to 6000 miles.

FLAME AWAY.


JOE

1992 400SE, couple hundred KMs shy from 90,000 KM

Andy Kuo

__________________
1992 Mercedes-Benz 400SE
http://members.shaw.ca/AKRY/W140_Side.gif

2002 Acura TL Type S
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365,789

my 1982 380 SEC has 113000 miles on it. and has been shipped about 15000 miles since Ive had it.

benzat
1982 380 SEC

My 87 300D has 228k on it. My mechanic just informed me that there is oil in the coolant. In the nine years I've had the car here is what has been replaced:

> cruise control....
> a/c condenser
> steering box
> radiators...two
> fan clutch
> turbo and trap oxidizer (one week after I bought the car, thank you)
> transmission (two of them; first one was lunched because dealer did not put in new torque converter...the second one works great.....)
> sunroof..new motor
> motor mounts (three sets)
> both rear shock mounts broke and the shocks wound up poking into the trunk (happened several years apart)
> air blower
> push button climate control unit
> both headrest motors
> at least six replacement of various electronic switches
> small gasket was loose in turbo system.....getting to it required manifold removal...six hours later and a frozen stud....sigh.

Not exactly a reliable car; I added up the service costs over the years. It is a big number; this owner is almost ready to switch to a Honda Accord or Toyota Camry. But, I'll give Otto one more chance (mainly so I can trade this diesel in on another car and get rid of it). I have owned at least four Jap cars; nothing has ever broken and I've driven the hell out of them! Makes me think that Nissan Maxima with some suspension work might be the ticket for some reliable fun.

Carl

carl,

I would ask you not to shoot every horse in the bloodline because one of them comes up lame. The '86 and '87 diesels are not known as the best MB's ever made. There are many American car owners who would say that over 200,000 miles out of any car is unbelievable.

My Dad retired in '83 and has been buying Honda's, getting them in shape and selling them ever since. Honda's are not a magic cure for reliability. And they don't lend themselves to repair as well as most MB cars.

Another element is the way a car is driven and maintained. I'm not being accusational, it's just that "one sample does not a scientific study make".

Best of luck with whatever you decide to drive next,