If you install an intercooler (good one), then just adjust the full load to maximum. Adjusting ALDA just affects to low revs when boost is not up, it is usefull when you have bigger turbo and maybe modified pump with bigger elements, but with stock parts it doesn't make that much difference. Ofcourse it will increase the feel of power, but just the feel.

The pump with stock elements (5.5 mm) can only deliver 60 mm3 / 1000 strokes, it is enough for 180 hp, if we are talking about OM603. This power can be achieved without intercooler, but it will destroy your cylinder head in the summertime. I know :(

When you adjust the full load, then you should consider about the timing too, maybe try one or two degrees earlier that normally, you will see if it works.

And if you are thinking about tuning you diesels up some more, then I can help you. We in Finland can make you all the parts necessary, and lots of cheaper and totally better than Mosselmann.

Suitable turbo's, exchaus manifolds, tuned injection pumps (load for 130 mm3 -> 450-500 hp), GOOD intercoolers etc. We can make it all.

Br,
Mauri

ps, sorry for my english, I'm better in finish :D

pps. Oh yeah, be carefully when you add the boost with stock turbo, they are so tiny that more than 1 bar only increases the pressure of exchaus manifold, and that kills your engine. Stock boost 0.75-0.95 (depends on model) in enough for everything the pump can deliver, if you have good IC.

Sorry about the metrics...

You guys in Finland get to have all the fun...........................

Thanks for the info, Mauri! What pump timing do you use? Spec is 14 degrees ATDC for the later (1990-up) models, and that's where I have mine set. Does advancing the timing help? Also, is there any advantage to increasing the injector 'pop' pressure? Mine are at 143 bar, I was curious if there was any advantage to raising that to 160-170 bar or not.

:)

DslBnz I would like to take a look at that video but the link doesn't work. 404 Error Not Found. Do you have it somewhere else? :D

I think we should pool our resources and fly Mauri over here (with a bag of toys) for a little seminar on proper diesel performance mods. I get dibs on the first Super Turbo exhaust header though...oh and six new elements, and...

This has me wondering... thanks to Mauri, we now know the stock pump and turbo will limit us to about 180hp, regardless of intercooler size. It would be easy to send our pump to Finland for a little modification. And, we can put a larger turbo on the stock manifold, I think... didn't someone else do this on a 3.5L W126 (elsewhere on this forum)? So in that case.... what would the power limit be while retaining the stock intake, exhaust manifolds, and exhaust header pipe? Maybe 200-225hp? I think few people have the capability to install custom headers and custom exhausts - "bolt on" stuff is much easier to work with. (Yeah, I know we can't get 300-400hp with bolt ons, but I'll worry about those power levels *after* I get to 180-200hp! :D )

:cool: :cool:

THere are T3/T4 hybrids (T3 exhaust turbine with T4 compressor) then there are various Trim levels that will get you higher flow at top end with less intake charge heating....but at cost of low speed spoolup.

Unless somebody at Cometic (#1 head gasket supplier in the Turbo sport and compact world) can do custom head gaskets for the 617 and head studs on head boost levels are still gonna be under 15 psi. Custom pistons allowing 18-1 compression will allow higher boost levels and more fueling for more power but now you are talking far more money than most of these cars are worth, even the nice ones......

so its probably safe to say that the 617 pump will not flow enough fuel as the 603 pump?

I would still be inclined to max out the full load screw and check out some EGT readings..I'll be removing the intake/exhaust manifolds this weekend to drill and tap a hole for boost pressure...might have to venture to the other side of the engine for more upgrades :)

Awesome thread!

Pretty likely that the OM617 pump, like the 603, can only put out 20-25% more power by turning the screw. I bet you could turn the 617 pump up and get 150hp with intercooling, though... past that, you'll probably need to ship it to Finland for some larger pump elements - same as the 603. :D

I'm not sure what kind of power the 617 can take in stock form. The 603 guys, like Mauri, are getting 400+hp with the stock pistons, heads, and everything else on the bottom end - just modifying the intake/exhaust manifolds, and the injection pump. And they run up to 2 bar (30psi) with the big Holset turbos, despite the 22:1 compression ratio. (Right, Mauri?) I'm not sure what advantage there would be to dropping the ratio.

:confused:

Let me know what gets adjusted and take pictures of what gets adjusted.....having just replaced an IP on mine , its no small job, nor quick.....the oil cooling tower is 95% of the problem, its hard to get out and even harder to put back in, and you aren't getting access to the ip rer or getting it out with it in place. Figure a 6 hour R&R each time you need to pull it.

It is same with OM617 pump as it is with OM603, but 617 has only 5 elements to deliver the fuel, 603 has six, and therefore it can deliver more power.

Compress ratio shouldn't be touched, it will worsen the engine power before boost is up, and at cold weather the car won't start.

We are using stock pistons head and all, just change everyhting that is worn out. We are driving with 2-2,4 bars, using mostly Holset HX40 (60 / 65 mm). Forget all hybrids, they are for gasoline cars. Diesel has much bigger wolume of exhaust gasses and it needs bigger turbine. Hybrids have big compressor, but at the same time you increase the exhaust pressure.

What really makes superturbos work is the big turbo (big turbine) that allos the engine to breath. Also IC is very important.

You can use the stock exhaust pipe, but it is not enough for more over 200 hp, I had stock pipe for a week with about 350 hp and it is not good for the engine, it also increases the pressure unnecessarely. I made this pipe myself, 3.5" stainless steel and self made silencer too. Flows more than enough.

In the first version I used the stock exhaust manifold, but it made the turbo (Schwitzer S2B, 50/60 mm) to wake up little late, It could have been better with ALDA adjustment, but I never did that. Soon I installed hand made manifold and HX40 and oh man, that turbo has sweet sound. My wife said the first time in soft acceleration when turbo started to give little boost that it sounded like turbine from Boeing airplane, and she is right. ;)

Pumps can really be modified here, no problem, and possibly my good friend (has that white s*itty looking W124 in one of those video called "liukasta" acceleratind, 433 hp) has a friend that travels lot between Finland and US, this friend can maybe help with transportation....

By the way, that same white W124 had a competition with Ferrari Testarossa, guess who won every time :sun_smile

Dang...It's nice to see that someone is talking about some actual hands on experience with modifying these lil engines! I've been searching forums for about a month now and this has to be the best thread yet. Keep the good info coming! I'm looking at having a local shop put on 3 inch from the turbo back with no muffler...I'm so tempted to just max out the full load screw and observe temps....since its such a pain in the azz to take apart I might as well throw an intercooler on it so I wont have to change it back :D :D :D
Mauri...Which do you prefer? Air to Air or Water to air intercoolers?
I'm leaning towards air to water just because it looks like putting an intercooler in front of the radiator on my 123 is a PITA, while I have all that room on the passanger side just to the right of the turbo ( as you are sitting in the car)
Might be a nice spot to mount a water/air setup! Also, I have access to methanol.....I think methanol would be a better cooling agent than water, as it is very cold. How would all of this work on a daily driver though? HX40 is the same turbo that the newer cummins diesels use isnt it? Is it the same T3 bolt pattern as found on our exhaust manifolds? Sorry to bombard you with questions..Just a newbie here

I kept the IP off the OM616 of my Honneycomb. Besides the 5th plunger and different ALDA, are there any other known differences? It's an '80 W123 style and looks very much like my TD's IP. If they are alike, mabye I'll pull the panel off it and get some pics later to use for us OM617 people.

Yeah post some pictures! I've gotta get a couple of my 300D. I think I did a nice job installing the pyrometer :)
I dont smoke, and nobody smokes in my rig so the ashtray made a PERFECT mounting spot for my gauge(s) (boost not installed yet) there is even a switched 12v supply which is required for the Pyro...and I stabbed onto the grey wire going to the radio for my backlight..very slick man I wish I had a digital camera!

You might want to peruse the factory repair manual, but all I could find was reference to adjusting the pre-load tension on the governor spring in order to alter fuel quantity. http://skinnerbox.steaky.org/Servic...17/07_1-010.pdf It doesn't clearly define where the full load stop screw might reside, if it exists at all on the OM617 pumps. Much much easier on the OM60x units... :beatnik2: