Preheat Innovations - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

diesel don · #1 11-08-2003, 07:27 PM

A friend that is a trucker was telling me that his rig now has a built in timer to heat the engine. Apparently it begins to blow hot air through it 30 minutes before intended startup.

Has anyone rigged such a contraption in their MB? My daughter has gone off to college and I'm worried about her '84 300D sitting out all night and not plugged in.

I was wondering if a second battery (kind of like a house battery in a motorhome) could be on constant charge from the main battery and activate some type of hot air pre-heat?

Ideas?

Don

kerry · #2 11-08-2003, 07:32 PM

Two: In extreme circumstances use either a propane torch or a heat gun into the air intake. Gives you hot air to combust at least. I believe in some older diesels (boat engines if I'm not mistaken) you would start a fire in the intake passageways before attempting to start the engine.

JimSmith · #3 11-09-2003, 09:50 AM

diesel don,

The trucker probably has a "Webasto" supplemental heater. This is a factory option for all MB's in Germany, and involves a small Diesel fuel or gasoline (depending on the automobile engine type) burning heater, with a small pump that is integrated with the heating system in the car, truck or boat. I have this system on my 1986 190E 2.3-16, and had it installed in a few 1980's vintage W123 230E's I imported. I get it serviced at a local boat yard, and believe you could have one installed at either a truck service or boat service station that carries the Webasto equipment. They are pretty costly for a back fit though. The system has two programmed times (I used it before going to work and then before coming home as I do not have a garage). They will run for 60 minutes or until the battery charge is less than some value the computer considers necessary to successfully start the vehicle.

The system used to scare the hair off my dog. He would be lying near the cars in the morning before we had to contain him, and when this thing would light off it sounded like a small jet engine. The dog would flip out and start barking at the car like it was alive and had not been granted rights to live inside his territory.

Hope this helps, Jim

diesel don · #4 11-09-2003, 12:06 PM

This is helpful and thanks for the ideas.

I'm also considering the following:

1. Extra house battery that is charged by main battery when running
2. 12 volt converter for the block heater plug
3. Timer - to come on 3 hours before intended startup

Seems like it'd work.

Don

JimSmith · #5 11-09-2003, 04:52 PM

diesel don,

My daughter took the 1982 240D to Upstate NY for four years of college, and once I fixed the machine (new engine mounts, new "heavy duty" starter from FastLane, valves adjusted, etc., and change to Delvac 1) she only had one day of being stranded when the weather dropped below -10F. She learned the car will start every time if you drive it every day, for long enough to thoroughly warm it up (more than 25 miles). The one time in the last, most strenuous winter in years it failed to start because it was too cold out for her to take it on its daily jaunt. Instead she drove it about two miles to a grocery store and back, and then later that evening it would not start. She was lucky as it warmed up a little the next day, and it is a manual, so she "pop started it" as she calls it, and all was well again. This was made easier because she has been trained to park with the nose downhill, as the rear crankshaft oil seal leaks, so she only had to dig the snowbank away enough to let the car roll out onto the clear pavement strip in the center.

Good battery, good glow plugs, good engine mounts, a strong starter, and Delvac 1 did the trick for her. The previous oil was Mobil 1 15W-50 and believe it or not the Delvac 1 made a difference.

I am in Europe at the moment, just went through Munich and bought a German car magazine. There are now a number of those supplemental heaters. Seems the growing desire for comfort and the low enery level of a Diesel at idle has spawned a market for these things. Apparently in really cold climates and city traffic a Diesel can be so efficient there is not enough heat being rejected to the water jacket to keep the interior of the car warm. So there are now a number of these items, ranging in price from 120 Euros to about 800 Euros for the more sophisticated Webasto units. The claim is they can be installed in a few hours. If you want I will get some additional data on these items when I get back to Munich on my return to the US.

Good luck and I hope this helps. Jim

BoostnBenz · #6 11-09-2003, 07:10 PM

Sort of along the same lines the dodge 3/4 cummins uses a resistive element in the intake that heats the air coming into the motor as you start it. I also hear that it runs while the motor is going sometimes to inorder to keep it running smoothly.

Why is that when you run it daily it is more likely to start the next time? I surely can't imagine the heat staying in there, so it just stops stuff from getting froze or what?

diesel don · #7 11-09-2003, 09:38 PM

Jim:

I would enjoy a brochure or website on the topic.

My problem is that all five of mine start a bit differently. She does have a good one. 15 degrees this morning and it fired off right away. Plus I don't have synthetic in it yet. Generally, I wait til December to put the expensive stuff in. So that is good news.

As for my wagon (253k miles), it is barely firing right now. Stalls a time or two. I don't have synthetic yet in it either, but I think the compression is beginning to grow weaker. The glo plugs are only 8 months old and I believe the battery is fine. I may back out the rack pin to gain a few degrees.

We have a temporary cold front here so I'm getting some early information. Two years ago when I began this grand experiment, I never thought of my kids leaving for college. They, like your daughter, have become so attached to their beloved MB's that I couldn't pry their fingers off the wheels even with the bribe of a new car.

Her brown car is in need of a paint job and I want to paint it MB red but she won't have it. Wants the original brown.

Boost n Benz:

A very nice looking MB you have there.

Thanks

Don

jhahn · #8 11-09-2003, 10:07 PM

Small article in Ward's:
http://wdb.wardsauto.com/ar/auto_show_heat_2/

diesel don · #9 11-09-2003, 10:18 PM

Thanks for the article. Enjoyed the read. Slowly getting educated.

Looks like they cost about what I pay for cars. So I need to think through it and make something myself.

Don

BoostnBenz · #10 11-09-2003, 10:29 PM

I would think we'd be a step ahead since we have the auxillary water pump to move it around, so just wire it so the auxillary pump and blower fan are both going at the same time as whatever you're using to heat the coolant with is. Doesn't sound incredibely complicated, but getting that much heat out of one battery while still starting would be interesting. How warm does the factory coolant heater get? Probably not enough....

Thanks for the compliment, I sure wouldn't of minded that picture turning out better though, it was a little to dark otherwise you'd see the superb folliage in the background.

jhahn · #11 11-09-2003, 10:46 PM

Here is an item that is used on the TDI forum. One individual has made a kit, with the 1000W, that is specifically for the TDI with all fittings. Put a timer on it and it only needs an hour. What I have copied here is just the heater. I noticed there is also an adapter for MB. Each application would have to search out the proper fittings (probably not much more than $15).

http://www.jcwhitney.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&AID=5096982&PID=544008&productId=2473&CJURL=catsubpic_image.jhtml%3FCATID%3D181857&catalogId=10101&storeId=10101

BoostnBenz · #12 11-09-2003, 10:54 PM

How would that be any different than our current block heaters though? I suppose if you use both it could get pretty warm but then you are also talking about over 18A together as well.

jhahn · #13 11-09-2003, 11:12 PM

I got stuck on the TDI which doesn't have a block heater. Forgot where I was. Comes with age.

leathermang · #14 11-09-2003, 11:53 PM

THis might be a good time to remind those new to MB's that the glow plug circuit stays on after the light goes out...
The manual says the glow plugs ( if you leave the key in glow position) continue to HEAT for about ONE MINUTE...
So if it is cold and you want the best chance of starting IF your battery will turn the engine over... time the glow plugs for 45 seconds after the light goes out...
That , with good battery , compression, and good cables and connections, will help many people start up in the cold.

BoostnBenz · #15 11-10-2003, 12:21 AM

Typically when it is that cold I actually wait to hear the GP relay click rather than when the light goes out. I wonder why they did it like this, just seems rather stupid.