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  #1  
Old 11-22-2003, 02:40 PM
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No start frustration

Ok, here's my saga if anyone can help.

1983 240D. I have a love hate relationship with this car. This past spring I had problems starting. Needed a shot of starting fluid in the air filter to start. So I took it off the road and let it sit for a few months.

About a month ago, got around to working on it. Put in new glow plugs. Start fine, actually better than it had ever started before. About a week later, it wouldn't start again. This time seemed to be alternator related. Replaced voltage regulator and battery. Charging system seems good now (alt is a little weak, but is working).

Also, replaced fuel filters and used anti microbial stuff in the fuel tank incase of algae.

Still not starting without a shot of starting fluid. Not sure where I should go next with this. Fuel lines look ok. Not much cracking, alittle wear but I don't think anything is leaking (maybe a little from the injector closest to firewall).

Any suggestions of what to do or try (preferrably on the cheap) would be appreciated.

Also, on a side note: has anyone ever tried adding an isolator and a second battery in the trunk for a amplifier install? Was thinking of doing this but I'm not sure I should do it off a 55 amp alt.


Thanks-

Jesse
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  #2  
Old 11-22-2003, 04:38 PM
mb123mercedes
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Hi Jesse.

Very wise people here.

You could do a search on the topic.
You might find an answer there.

Louis.
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  #3  
Old 11-23-2003, 11:53 AM
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One thing I forgot to add:

If the car is warm, ie, if I drive it for 20+ minutes and then turn it off, it will start normally for the next 20+ minutes (while it's still warm).
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  #4  
Old 11-23-2003, 12:13 PM
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On mine I have to do a second glow (and wait 5 seconds AFTER the ligth goes out) to start, but it does.
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  #5  
Old 11-23-2003, 01:35 PM
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Dear dreamliner77:

Your car symptom sounds like it needs a new starter.

A quick look on Fastlane shows this information:

SR 61 LIGHT DUTY: F5000-11366 (Bosch) $75 (for W123 240D)

SR 67 HEAVY DUTY: F5000-11370 (Bosch) $60 (for W123 300TD)

You should get the HEAVY DUTY starter used for W123 300D turbo model, which also fits your 240D.

Why? A diesel engine starts thanks to the ignition from compression heat, not from a spark ignition heat. Therefore, as your car ages, the original light duty starter becomes weaker due to increased coil resistance, and the worn compression piston rings also reduce the compression pressure (which translates into less compression heat), so the cranking rotations per minutes must be higher in order to produce more compression heat. The weakened light duty starter is no longer able to provide such an increased cranking capability, and your car cannot start unless you shoot starting fluid into the air filter housing.

STOP dumping starting fluid into your air filter housing. Mercedes diesel engines have indirect pre-ignition chambers, which may be severely damaged due to the explosive effect of starting fluid.

FIX the root cause of a problem in lieu of beating around the bush.

In the meantime, try to go through at least 2 cycles of glowing before cranking your car to see whether it helps. Otherwise, replacing the starter seems to be the only alternative.

Best regards,

Eric
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  #6  
Old 11-23-2003, 02:50 PM
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I actually have a starter sitting around that I pulled from a boneyard. I might just swap it to see if it works. Then I can always buy the heavy duty. I'm off to check voltages at plugs etc this pm.

I didn't know that the starter could have that much of an effect. Mutliple glow plug turn ons do not help. Wish it did. I have not been driving the car much since this started, I don't want to destroy the engine from the starting fluid.

Might take me a few days to get the starter done, I'll post back when I've gotten it done.


Edit: Forgot to add that the starter will turn and turn when I try to start. Also, what is the site for fastlane?
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www.ntfs.org

Last edited by dreamliner77; 11-23-2003 at 03:10 PM.
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  #7  
Old 11-23-2003, 03:08 PM
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You could always give me the car and I'll be stuck with sorting out the problem.

How long since the valves were adjusted?
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  #8  
Old 11-23-2003, 03:13 PM
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You're gonna hate me for this, but I don't think the valves have been adjusted in the 6 years or so that this car has been in the family. I've been looking into doing it, but the starting problem has been #1 on the priority list. How much am I looking at if I have someone else do it?
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  #9  
Old 11-23-2003, 03:42 PM
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Adjust the valves and see if that doesn't solve your problem. Shouldn't cost much to have someone do it but you can probably do it yourself if you want.
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1985 300D Turbo ~225k
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1999 International 4900, DT466e (250hp/660 ft/lbs), Allison MD3060 ~73k
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  #10  
Old 11-23-2003, 04:08 PM
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The valves out of spec. could condribute to the starting problem.
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  #11  
Old 11-23-2003, 06:58 PM
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Should I order the wrenches and manuals and try myself? Worth it or any idea how much a shop would charge?
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  #12  
Old 11-23-2003, 07:51 PM
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I don't know how much it would cost to have a shop do it, I think some have posted it's about the cost of the wrenches, but I suppose it depends on the shop. It's possible to do it with 2 14mm wrenches and a set of feeler guages, that's what I do, I think it's probably a lot easier with the right wrenches though. (took me 45 minutes with regular wrenches the first time) If you aren't a DIY'er I would just take it to a good shop (one that knows what it's doing with your particular car).

Valves are supposed to be checked/adjusted every 15,000 miles.... some let them go longer though. You may also want to get a new gasket for the valve/cam cover.
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1985 300D Turbo ~225k
2000 F350 (Powerstroke) 4X4, SWB, CC, SRW, 6spd ~148k
1999 International 4900, DT466e (250hp/660 ft/lbs), Allison MD3060 ~73k
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  #13  
Old 11-23-2003, 09:09 PM
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Jesse

If you keep using starting fluid to get it going your apt to not need to worry about using your engine for anything except a door stop. A little WD 40 or heat in the intake might be a better idea. Have you checked compression? Adjusting the valves would be a real good idea too.
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  #14  
Old 11-23-2003, 09:11 PM
oilburninokie
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Lightbulb

Is your battery good? If it is weak it won't turn the engine over fast enough to start.

I had a similar problem. Found the battery needed about a quart of water. Filled it, charged it, and haven't had a problem in 5 months.
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  #15  
Old 11-24-2003, 02:06 PM
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I just put in a new battery and voltage regulator.

I am what I consider a good do it yourself-er. I think I could tackle the valves if I had a decent guide and specs to walk me thru it. Also would like to throw in that other starter.

I have not been driving the car because I hate the idea of using starting fluid.

My regular mechanic isn't sure what is wrong and figures it'll take him 3 hours just to find it. I don't wanna pay that much in labor if I can spend few $ to alleviate myself.
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