Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-25-2003, 01:22 AM
squid1351's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: san jose CA
Posts: 47
Putting GAS in a diesel

a while back i saw a man fill his brand new duramax with 91 octane fuel. to say the least some cool stuff happend.. I was ticled to death becouse i would not be caught driving a heavy duty truck with aluminum heads. i learned a long time ago why not to put gas in a diesel but im not sure why exactly what happends to couse such destruction.: im looking for details of what happens and what kind of damage is caused and why the damage is caused. dont be afraid to get technical im mechanicly literet.

__________________
Seth,

2 parts egg, 4 parts flour, 1 part salt and 6 parts 55 Cetane diesel fuel

1965 corvair monza convertable
1984 euro 300D 4 speed (NO LEATHER, ALL MANUAL)100,000 miles
Thank god the ford is gone
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-25-2003, 02:03 AM
123c
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
What happened to when he tried to start it?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-25-2003, 03:28 AM
fahrgewehr2's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Wilmington, NC
Posts: 1,264
Quote:
What happened to when he tried to start it?
Yes, we need to know what happened. This sounds good.

Mike
__________________
'90 300SE 298k
-300K and it gets put into retirement.
'80 300D 255k Purchased new by family in 1980.

Had a:
1973 220 (gas)
1980 300SD
1992 400E
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-25-2003, 08:18 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Manhattan, KS
Posts: 596
The diesel techs I have talked to all say not much will happen when you put gas in a direct-injected diesel because they simply won't run on it. I would not try it with my truck, but that is what they said.

About the aluminum heads, I would say get used to it. It won't be too long before all the big three heavy-duty trucks have aluminum heads. I have not heard of any problems with head gaskets on Duramaxes yet (except from Ford and Dodge dealers when I was shopping for my truck).
__________________
Keep everything as simple as possible-but no simpler--Albert Einstein
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-25-2003, 08:47 AM
Registered Diesel Burner
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 2,911
Aluminum head AND block is the trend.

Ken300D
__________________
--------------------------
1982 300D at 351K miles
1984 300SD at 217K miles
1987 300D at 370K miles
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-25-2003, 09:18 AM
squid1351's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: san jose CA
Posts: 47
well when he fired up nothing much happend but by the time he got to the drive way it staretd sucking the gas and made alot of wierd noises then just like stalled out and there was a bunch of smoke........ .......... as for the duramax i refuse to drive any diesel with aluminum heads and a cast iron block..... to my knowlege the expantion rate for aluminim is .0000012" per degree when cast iron is .0000006" per degree and knowing a diesel burns hotter this could lead to some bad things in my opinon
__________________
Seth,

2 parts egg, 4 parts flour, 1 part salt and 6 parts 55 Cetane diesel fuel

1965 corvair monza convertable
1984 euro 300D 4 speed (NO LEATHER, ALL MANUAL)100,000 miles
Thank god the ford is gone
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-25-2003, 11:57 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Manhattan, KS
Posts: 596
It is all a matter of choice, it is a free country. I am perfectly happy with my D'Max. As far as coefficients of expansion, I guess I feel as though that is something covered by freshman-level engineering material, so I would hope the people at Isuzu (and MB as well) took that into account. I'm not one to blindly trust engineers, but in this case I guess I will take their word for it.
__________________
Keep everything as simple as possible-but no simpler--Albert Einstein
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-25-2003, 12:35 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Reno/Sparks, NV
Posts: 3,063
I remember somebody else on this board put a small amount of gas into his MB diesel and said it ran very rough. Put more gas in and it will stall. My guess is that this happens because the shorter carbon chains of gasoline don't break down as easily under heat as diesel does.

I also wonder what would happen if you put diesel in a gasoline car. My guess is that it would stall too, as diesel doesn't evaporate as much as gasoline does (the vapor is what burns) and thus it wouldn't combust in response to the spark.
__________________
2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-25-2003, 12:50 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: PA
Posts: 5,440
Putting Diesel fuel in a gasoline engine fouls the spark plugs so bad that they have to be replaced to get the engine running. Been there, done that.

The old kerosene spark ignition tractors had an intake manifold heated by exhaust gasses to vaporize the kerosene. They also started on Gasoline and ran on it until they got hot. The compression ratio was also very low, maybe 5 to 1.

I put a two cycle mix in my Kubota tractor because I ran out of fuel in the woods. The only difference I could see was that it smoked less. I would be afraid straight gasoline would damage the injection pump because gasoline has no lubricating qualties as Diesel fuel does.

P E H
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-25-2003, 03:42 PM
The Warden's Avatar
Certified diesel nut
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Pacifica (SF Bay Area), CA
Posts: 2,946
What PEH said. A friend of my dad's was going through a nasty divorce a few years back, and her ex-husband purposefully filled the tank of her Mazda MPV with diesel fuel. It actually did more damage than "just" fouling spark plugs, and the car wound up being donated to charity.

I always thought that attempting to run a diesel on gasoline would have more spectacular results than just stalling. Gasoline burns far easier than diesel, and I had always believed that the engine would run with more violent combustions until something gave way (my semi-joking comment has been to put gas on a diesel and watch the cylinder head fly in the air).

BTW, as Habanero said, everyone has the choice to do as he/she wishes, but I must agree with Seth regarding the aluminum head/iron block issues. I think that the D-max hasnt' had any head/head gasket problems because, to date, the vast majority of D-max owners are doing a proper job of maintaining the cooling system and making sure that the engine doesn't overheat. I'll bet, in another 5 or 6 years, people who aren't as meticulous will start owning them, and then the trouble will start. As long as an engine isn't overheated, an aluminum head will work, but the moment an overheat occurs, you're hosed, and will be lucky if you only need to replace the head gasket.. The OM603 is a perfect example, as is Volkswagen's diesels from the mid '80's (in fact, I got an M-B instead of a VW diesel because I didn't want to deal with an aluminum head). How many OM603's and VOlkswagens have you seen being sold at a low price because they need a head gasket or a head 'cause they've overheated? And, yes I'll admit to having a bias against GM I have a feeling that, if M-B couldn't overcome thermal expansion (I don't think the newer engines are any different; just, they're still new enough that problems haven't really cropped up), I have a lot of trouble believing that GM was able to.

Just my $.02... I LOVE MY CAST-IRON DIESELS!!
__________________
2001 VW Jetta TDI, 5 speed, daily driver
1991 Ford F-350, work in progress
1984 Ford F-250 4x4, 6.9l turbo diesel, 5 speed manual
Previous oilburners: 1980 IH Scout, 1984 E-350, 1985 M-B 300D, 1979 M-B 300SD, 1983 M-B 300D
Spark-free since 1999
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-25-2003, 03:53 PM
Jim B+
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
In cold weather? I've had people suggest

adding a gallon of gas to each tankfull of diesel in times of extremely cold weather to help make the diesel fuel more volatile. Any comments?
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-25-2003, 04:43 PM
Rick Miley's Avatar
Spark Free
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Land O Lakes, FL
Posts: 3,086
Quote:
Originally posted by squid1351
a while back i saw a man fill his brand new duramax with 91 octane fuel.
This is very troubling if I'm interpreting it correctly. Did you know that he put gasoline in a diesel powered truck before he started it? Did you say nothing to him about it to prevent the mistake?
__________________
Rick Miley
2014 Tesla Model S
2018 Tesla Model 3
2017 Nissan LEAF
Former MB: 99 E300, 86 190E 2.3, 87 300E, 80 240D, 82 204D Euro
Chain Elongation References
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-25-2003, 05:10 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Reno/Sparks, NV
Posts: 3,063
Quote:
Originally posted by The Warden
I always thought that attempting to run a diesel on gasoline would have more spectacular results than just stalling. Gasoline burns far easier than diesel, and I had always believed that the engine would run with more violent combustions until something gave way (my semi-joking comment has been to put gas on a diesel and watch the cylinder head fly in the air).
Gasoline burns easier than diesel once ignited, however it requires more heat to ignite. There's way more heat inside a spark than anywhere inside a cylinder of a diesel engine.
__________________
2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-25-2003, 05:39 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Swindon UK
Posts: 34
Adding gas to diesel

Back in the 80's Audi/Vw handbooks recommended running up to 30% gas in extremely low temperatures. However winter fuels have made this unnecessary now.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-25-2003, 06:22 PM
squid1351's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: san jose CA
Posts: 47
when i saw him, he had just hung the pump nozzle up and was getting in his truck when he closed the door i noticed that there was a duramax diesel logo on the door and by the time it hit my head that this station doesnt sell diesel fuel by that time he had fired up and was heading towrd the drive way when it bagan to make some wierd noise and smoke like hell. belive me if i had noticed earlyer i would have notifed him of his error......

__________________
Seth,

2 parts egg, 4 parts flour, 1 part salt and 6 parts 55 Cetane diesel fuel

1965 corvair monza convertable
1984 euro 300D 4 speed (NO LEATHER, ALL MANUAL)100,000 miles
Thank god the ford is gone
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page