Bath for injector parts ?
 

Does anyone remember what to soak injector parts in to get all the grunge off. I pulled the injectors apart yesterday and it was amazing the car (240D) was running at all. I put in a set that I had and the car sounds nice now but I would like to clean these up for spares. A search didn't come up with the info on what to soak them in.

I do believe just normal carb cleaner works well here, it was suggested by a forum member to soak it overnight for a good cleaning. That is what I plan on using, I'll be working on that early next week. Right now I'm working in the fuel tank, then I go to the injectors (clean & pop), then to the IP timing.

I think that thomaspin used lacquer thinner to clean injectors in his article.

I suppose that would work as well, I'd think carb cleaner would be stronger and cut quicker but the lacquer thinner probably won't evaporate overnight like carb cleaner may.

The injectors in mine were REALLY rusted and goopy inside, so on dis-assy, I soaked in Berrymans carb cleaner (gallon can with basket) for an hour, then ran them in the ultrasonic cleaner (we normally use for gun cleaning) for about 10 mins with a 10% simple green solution.

Came out nice. Just the Berrymans for a few hours should do it. Make sure the cleaner is warm. USE GLOVES AND A FACE MASK!

My whole fuel system has this black coating on it, inside every line and hose (well that I haven't replaced recently) so I'm expecting at least that much in the injectors. I don't understand how they can get rusted, they are almost always in contact with an oil, diesel. Did they work fine after cleaning even with the rust? Pitted at all or did it clean right off?

I thought this would be a good time to ask if anyone is going to pull their Precombustion chambers to check the seven small holes in it ?

I was waiting for you Greg...
 

The oft forgotten prechamber that breathes life into the engine via explosions...

I guess I am getting TOO predictable.... LOL
But those holes are a critical interface between all the machinery which causes the pistons to go up and down, squeeze the air, get the fuel to be dispensed at the correct time.... and yet there is an amazingly ( to me ) small amount of discussion / concern for them being clean and open ... etc...
Is this due to the very high cost of the screw out pulling tool ? Or that it seems ' too far inside the engine' to be messed with ... people will do a good job cleaning their injectors and seem to repress any suggestions that the precombustion chambers might should be pulled and at least inspected when they are out.
The Factory Shop manual emphasizes how important it is for them to be clean... perhaps it is a lack of access to the Factory shop manual.... I don't know... but as you can see I have not given up my mission to make people think about them..... LOL

Thanks for all the replies. Think l will try the lacquer thinner as I have a gallon in the shop. It is a mystery how they get rust in there. Thanks again

Greg .. I have pulled the heads off about 4 616s now and have never seen a plugged hole in the PC. What happens? Just get carboned up ?

Steve

The manual says the holes should be clean and the little ball deal which I can't remember their name for... should be in good shape... I guess it is what directs the fuel stream towards the radially positioned holes...
I am assuming that carbon would be the usual problem.. however, someone mentioned that that round deal had burned off at the ends and was rattling around in their precombustion chamber hole... they thought someone had accidentally dropped a bearing into that area.... so that would be something which needs to be checked...
I am not accusing you of not having them clean.. It is just that the precombustion chambers get no publicity unless I post it... LOL... I am their self appointed publicity agent....(because I think they are very important ).

Since we are on the fuel system topic here anyway, what would you guys guess would cause white smoke all the time? Startup doesn't seem very difficult, nearly no blowby, burns around a quart per 3k miles, no coolant loss, and yet I can see smoke behind me while cruising down the road. It smokes even worse under boost, I'm thinking it is unburnt fuel and perhaps the timing could be causing it (I was informed today that the IP lock tool isn't available when trying to order it)? It seems to have gotten worse since I did the new timing chain but gradually. The car has 2 newer looking bosch injectors and 3 older ones which I don't care for, just wondering what I'm in for. Thanks. Oh, and also it seems to be running a bit hotter than I'd like most of the time. It warms up when I slow down and I almost think that the car warms at idle unless heat is on max.

A new timing chain elongates more than an old one per mile traveled... the Factory shop manual makes the distinction at 20,000 ( something )..... so you might need to check your timing again... and a new chain wears even more being placed on old sprockets...White smoke is unusual around here.... the last time I saw it was on a Ford which was sucking trans fluid out of the auto trans....So I would caution you to watch your coolant level... you may be producing steam ....

BoostnBenz


I know this is a bet unrefined, but mark your IP/block there on the flange, you know where you can see which way you've moved things. Advance your IP just a taste (1/8'') toward the engine and see if that does not help, if not move it back. I had an old time BM mechanic tell me that for the problems you describe EXCEPT for the "smoking all the time" part. Anyway there are no parts involved just wrenching.:D

Steve

I thought he said 1/16", yea I should give that a try but I'll clean the injectors out here first anyways. :) Thanks for the suggestion Stevo.

"I thought he said 1/16"

Where did you see that? Anyway a "skosh" is between 1/16 "and 1/8", :D the point is,.. you see if its better that way, if not try the other way. Actually my problem turned out to be injectors. Good luck

Steve

I searched something about white smoke and seen that post in a thread somewhere. :)

I let them soak in lacquer thinner for about 24 hours. It did a good job. I was amazed at the amount of stuff at the bottom of each can containing an injector in pieces. I dipped the parts in diesel and reassembled them.

I used one of those cheap odorless paint thinners for 24hours and it did NOTHING, so at the moment I brought a couple containers of parts in and swapped one to carb cleaner and the other to reactive reducer (stuff used in automotive painting). Maybe the new cleaners will do better? Maybe the heat will make a difference? While I can clean the carbon off the nozzle I can't clean the grooves inside it so it is really upto this stuff to do all that work.

LOL... yes,,, I have seen that too.... there is a lot of difference between " mineral spirits" and ' lacquer ' thinner...
one or the other may or may not work on what the other works on.... LOL... how about that for sentence structure.. try diagraming it.... LOL

If you want an interesting experiment mix the two. Precipitation forms (white) and it becomes exothermic then the precipitation forms a goo which goes to an almost plastic like form in gobs. :) The carb cleaner appears to be working a little bit better right now, I guess I'll go fill up the other two containers with real thinner or carb cleaner. One thing I notice and really appreciate is that my car has 5 injectors, of which two are rebuilds, three are probably stock. Of the two rebuilds both are rusted pretty bad, the other three have nearly nothing. LOL Makes me want to go buy a rebuilt alternator or something....

Oh and I accept no liability if you poke yourself in the eye reading this or do something I say whether humorous or not. ;)

"no liability if you poke yourself in the eye reading this "

Well good luc......aaaauuhhhh..:eek: :eek: ..PAIN ..I just spilled a cup of HOT coffee in my lap while reading YOUR post, you will be hearing from my attorney .:D

Last spring I bought new tips for about $25.00 ea and then borrowed a pop tester to check them. they were all the same, spot on. I wish I had a pop tester to check the ones I just soaked and cleaned up, they are spares now

LOL, I wonder if I still have my legal disclaimer page up on my old site, it was pretty funny. It started off serious and worked its way off....

I was searching for a POP tester as well, a truck shop wanted $65, I found some other place that said around $45 but I don't find that incredibly appealing as I can buy an injector for that price! I thought I found the bosch pop tester on ebay for $50 but it turned out to be for a gasser. It looks just like the diesel version in the factory manual. The ones for sale on ebay are pretty fancy and expensive. I can justify the compression tester I just bought, but a $250-500 POP tester that I'll use a few times isn't worth it.

The injectors didn't really have a problem anyway, however they had about 1/64" of carbon on them. My car needs an italian tune up!! :)

"I wonder if I still have my legal disclaimer "

Sorry, too late for that, think I,m looking at early retirement here.:D

I would sure pay $45 or $60 for a pop tester but not hundreds. Do they have used stuff like that at truck stops, sounds logical they would.

One thing you might consider is to fuel up with a biodiesel blend, say a B20 (20% biodiesel) to B50. Biodiesel is a strong solvent and will break down the petroleum deposits in the fuel system. Have a spare fuel filter on hand for when the gunk finally clogs the filter. There are some who have claimed that running B100 has actually cleaned a heavily deposited intake on TDIs. I know when I pulled my injectors they where very clean after 25K on B100/B75. Next time I pull them they are going to take a B100 bath.

LOL, I guess it was worth a try.

The $65 was a shop pop testing it for me, just seems like a waste for that much. Then they didn't actually know if they had an adapater to fit it either.

Would WVO have any of the same effect or is it just the excess methanol in the biodiesel which cleans stuff off? All of my clear lines have a funky hue in them now so that'd be nice if I could get all of that cleaned out. I wouldn't mind converting to WVO, but all I ever seem to do is think about it and not do it! :rolleyes:

"The $65 was a shop pop testing it for me"

Oh well.. so much for my fantasy about garage sales at truck stops, Man.. my lawyer is getting more material to work with every minute :D
Steve

I just wanted to share a few more final thoughts with my current experience before this thread goes off into the archives:
1- Rebuilt injectors are crap, only rusted nozzles I had were on the rebuilt injectors (they weren't all replaced at once for some reason or another), take the time to install new nozzles don't just trade them in on somebody's elses crap.
2- Diesel Purge actually does work, I ran diesel purge a little bit before and the insides of the injectors actually appeared quite clean.
3- Carb cleaner works better than lacquer thinner, mineral spirits doesn't work at all for this. If you let it soak for more than a day it'll start rusting and you'll only make more work for yourself.
4- Don't always drive like you're driving Ms. Daisy, diesels love being ran hard if you don't you'll have a carboned up motor like mine is at the moment. Never just redline it unloaded.
5- The injectors may get stuck, rather than using a huge breaker bar get out the impact wrench. My 25" breaker bar didn't want to loosen the 5th injector (I could have pulled harder but I was worried about snapping the injector) so instead I went with the 425ft/lb impact wrench to loosen it, didn't take much effort.

Sounds like good advice.....instelling new tips does seem the way to go.

That engine is still noisy so the new injectors (not really new, but pop tested and found to be good) did not cure my problem. Will go back to timing. I am wondering if a problem with pre chambers could be the cause of the extre noise. The engine starts easy, has little T chain stretch, only 165K on it....I dano

But..., where in he** do you find just injectors parts like new tips?

Just normal online parts stores. I listed some of my favorites on the DIY home page of my site. If you search "nozzle" in any of them they should bring it up.

OK, found them, thanks for the tip.

Problem is, they're more than 1/2 the cost of a NEW injector! Doesn't sound cost effective to me.

The ones you are looking at are rebuilt, it is somebody else's crap that they insert new nozzles on or just reshim the spring and sell for $50+. If you "rebuild" your own at least you know what you have and it costs about half as much.

Well..., they are sold as NEW and the pics LOOK like they're new?

http://catalog.eautopartscatalog.com/pacific/wizard.jsp?partner=pacific&clientid=importedcarparts.com&baseurl=http://www.importedcarparts.com/&cookieid=13R120SSU&year=1984&make=MB&model=300-DT-001&category=All&part=Diesel+Injector

Perhaps I'm wrong, but take a look at this site. About the same price, same injector, but no picture, and they admit it is rebuilt. While they may look new where do you think those cores are going? Just seems like most times you buy it new there are no cores versus if you buy it rebuilt there is.

Right. That makes sense about the cores, but the ones at the link above doesn't have a core charge, that's another reason I assume they're new? I'll call tomorrow and get the skinny.

If you add it to your cart they charge $15 core per injector.

Tom

I would think they are easy to come by. My MB mechanic/buddy ordered them. I would be suppressed if Phil or Rusty did not have them.

They're only 46.00 here and at Rusty's. I'd trust either one to be selling the right part and new if they say so. Is that prechamber thing really all that difficult to remove? Are they usually cleaned and put back in or it is better to just put in new ones? Now those cost a bit ! BTW, do you have to use the reamer when changing GPs ?

They don't say new or rebuilt so I'll be interested on what TomJ finds after calling. Prechamber isn't that hard to remove but does take a special tool. They really don't go bad so there shouldn't be a problem with that. I don't know why a person would take them out to clean them, driving a little harder for a short while cleans them. You only need the reamer if the GPs are other than standard.

NA 31 is a Bosch # for NEW; NA 31X (x=exchange ;)) is rebuilt. The parts #'s are sort of explained on the Bosch website.

Funny thing, I cannot find NEW injectors ANYWHERE!!!

ALL of the online parts sources (even searching for new Bosch injectors outside of the usual sources) have the $40-50 special. Would be interested to find out where on earth you can find honest to God NEW injectors if these aren't new?

I know where new Monarks are for $70, but Monarks aren't real great from what I hear.