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#16
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It costs more because houses are heated by a very simliar thing, fuel oil. Fuel oil can be taken right from a tank of a house and pumped into a vehicle but it is dyed in case the fuel color is ever inspected (pretty nice fines so I hear). Notice how most of the year it is cheaper until winter. If you run a farm the current price of diesel is about $.90/gal, good ole road taxs in my favorite state.
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Jeff M. Mercedes W123 DIY pages are now located here. 1983 / 1984 300D Sold 2000 CLK430 Cabriolet ~58k Sold 2005 Avalanche 4x4 ~66k |
#17
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The refining process can generate either more #2 or more gas from a barrel, depending on how they do it. From mid-summer they begin to crack for heating oil in order to build up stocks for winter - then in winter they switch back to gas to build stocks up for the driving season. Not exact, but about 2 to 1 for whatever they’re cracking for. Heat is 2 c above gas at wholesale right now, which is unusual, even for winter – that could put #2 about a dime over gas in Feb-Mch, - probably both will rise, as they try to subsidize each other.
Bottom line is that all the deregulation of the last 20 years has built the corporate trusts up to just where they were at the turn of the last century – except that this time they’re won’t be any trustbusters. The wolf has bought the henhouse. Liberal or conservative - it’s all a fantasy for the masses. They’re all playing the financial end game – employees and customers don’t count anymore – just quarterly profits for investors
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89 300E 79 240D 72 Westy 63 Bug sunroof 85 Jeep CJ7 86 Chevy 6.2l diesel PU "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." Marcus Aurelius |
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".....just quarterly profits for investors"
Yeah, and only the big investors. Given a chance, they screw over the little guys. Just look at what they did with the Mutual Funds.
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Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell. -- Edward Abbey 1984 300SD: Hilda the veggie vundercar |
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For the record, any Volkswagen dealer in the State of California will be happy to sell you a TDI Golf. You can buy diesels here but Mercedes chooses not to certify them (which I grant is not easy).
I agree with BoostenBenz that if you compare a "clean" SUV that consumes twice the fuel of a slightly more "polluting" car, it's the SUV that pollutes more. Unfortunately, the auto and oil companies have no incentive to encourage efficency. The next oil shock will take care of that just like it did in the 70s. It's too bad the US auto companies aren't smart enough not to set themselves up to hand over a big chunk of their market share to foreign manufacturers - again. The price of diesel is as market driven as anything else we buy. The laws of supply and demand are pretty fundamental to market pricing and with the oil companies able to influence supply, prices will always tend to remain just below or at the limit of political/consumer price resistance. This may be an odd comparison but consider also that we pay the same price for skim vs. whole milk yet the cost to produce skim is considerably less. The price we pay for skim is driven more by the supply and our willingness to pay than by the cost of production. The same is principle applies oil distillates. As to diesel particulates, no argument that they are nasty and not good to breathe. However, if in total a well cared for diesel pollutes less than the guzzling Hummer then we are better off with the diesels. If the government wants to eliminate diesels on the grounds of their pollution output, to be fair they should also eliminate any non commercial truck (aka. SUV) at the same time. It also strikes me that there is a very high percentage of diesels in Europe and I don't believe the incidence of heart disease is substantially higher there than here. These stories may help sell newspapers but they seldom mean much in real life.
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LRG 1987 300D Turbo 175K 2006 Toyota Prius, efficent but no soul 1985 300 TDT(130K miles of trouble free motoring)now sold |
#20
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Jeff M. Mercedes W123 DIY pages are now located here. 1983 / 1984 300D Sold 2000 CLK430 Cabriolet ~58k Sold 2005 Avalanche 4x4 ~66k |
#21
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Jeff M. has got it right, but I’d add that the whole market is a created thing. "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." (Johann Wolfgang von Goethe)
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89 300E 79 240D 72 Westy 63 Bug sunroof 85 Jeep CJ7 86 Chevy 6.2l diesel PU "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." Marcus Aurelius |
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Jeff,
That's my point exactly. The auto companies make what makes them money today. Unfortunately when the market turns they are left high and dry. No one wanted small cars in the 70s until gas prices more than doubled. Companies like Toyota and Honda are smart enough to keep investing in their small sedans so if/when a change comes they have a decent product to sell. Ford, as an example, has put almost no $/effort into updating the Taurus and will loose out to Camrys and Accords if consumer choices change. I can't blame the companies for making as much profit as possible, it's just that their reluctance to invest some of that profit to better their business down the road is worrysome. Toyota and Honda do it. Why not Ford and GM? Trace the histories of those four companies over the last 50 years and it's obvious the Japanese aren't making stupid decisions.
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LRG 1987 300D Turbo 175K 2006 Toyota Prius, efficent but no soul 1985 300 TDT(130K miles of trouble free motoring)now sold |
#23
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Jeff M. Mercedes W123 DIY pages are now located here. 1983 / 1984 300D Sold 2000 CLK430 Cabriolet ~58k Sold 2005 Avalanche 4x4 ~66k |
#24
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by lrg
[B]For the record, any Volkswagen dealer in the State of California will be happy to sell you a TDI Golf. You can buy diesels here but Mercedes chooses not to certify them (which I grant is not easy). _________________________________________________ From Nov. 03 issue of Popular Mechanics pg. 96,article- "Diesel futures" : "Despite current diesel technology, the engines future is cloudy. California emissions regulations prevent the sale of diesels there." lrg, you should know, you live there, but can you verify your statement ? PM could be wrong ...I just want to know. The same article goes on to say: "In 2004, the federal emissions standards for diesels get appreciably tougher." And then on pg. 98 they feature the GM Opel ECO- Speedster with a top speed of 159.53 mph and a recorded 92.6 mpg fuel economy ! The car is obviously an experimental type vehicle, but there is still something wrong with this whole scenario, if you know what I mean.
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Diesel-guy |
#25
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Brad,
A friend just bought a brand new TDI from a local dealer. It's possible that next year it's a different story but as of a week ago you could still get them. Virginia Dude, Remember, Thomas Jefferson was thought to be a liberal in his day. If it weren't for those liberals we'd be still be paying taxes to the British!
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LRG 1987 300D Turbo 175K 2006 Toyota Prius, efficent but no soul 1985 300 TDT(130K miles of trouble free motoring)now sold |
#26
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This is rapidly turning into something that should be moved to the General Discussion I suppose. I’m a 57 yr. old Futures Trader and religiously don’t pay to much attention while the market is open - still I have to watch what orders go off – and this is just a little distraction for me. It would be interesting to know how old and what everybody does that’s on this thread.
I will argue till the sun goes out that demand is a created fashion, and that only in a recognized crisis is demand driven by need. Recognized is the key operative word, and a crisis can be, itself - created artificially. It’s all relative to disposable income of course, but lately business makes more profit by selling to upper middle income, and less on volume necessities to everyone. Well there is Wal-Mart, but low-income people have fallen off the statistical charts in the US. It’s not a large % of the public that’s in the market. How many people are re-arranging their entertainment center so they can hang a TV on the wall? There’s a lot more people living East of the 405, but if you watched TV you’d think everyone lived in Marina del Rey or West LA – that’s who is being marketed too. Sure the Auto companies monitor trends – maybe they noticed that it was chic in the early eighties for the Hollywood Production crowd to drive an old beater Chevy Suburbans, and that trucks were way cheap and didn’t have all the emission and safety issues at manufacture. They were deep into getting everybody in a mini van back then, but what could be next? Like the designers periodically switch into 3 button suits or vested suits – the auto industry depends on switching peoples taste – so from the cheapest ride (basic pick up truck) to the new status symbol – biggest profit margin ever. What’s next? It’s obvious – The Chinese ride bikes and they’re doing great – I think we can justify $3000 or $4000 for an elegant practical – can’t afford anything else – Bicycle - Final Bell
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89 300E 79 240D 72 Westy 63 Bug sunroof 85 Jeep CJ7 86 Chevy 6.2l diesel PU "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." Marcus Aurelius |
#27
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lrg,
Thank you for the correction. PM and myself stand corrected...one can still buy a Diesel auto in the great state of CA. Perhaps PM was referring to 2004 ??? ________________________________________________ Whatever the case may be, I think we can all agree, that the powers that be, are making it more difficult to produce/sell diesel powered vehicles in this country. Publishing stories about how DANGEROUS diesel exhaust is would appear to be part of the plot of extinction. How about the silly CA electric car quota attempt ? What about the MTBE fiasco...that has turned out to be a groundwater pollution nightmare that may last for decades ! I'd rather breath a few diesel particulates than drink water with benzene in it. Is it all really about pollution control or is it about greed, power and control ? By the way, Silica(sand) can cause Silicosis of the lungs if inhaled...CA has some great beaches covered with this dangerous substance... it seems like the EPA and CARB should do something about this "horrible" situation. How about a sand tax to pay for respirators for all to wear while at the beach...that should be fun...
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Diesel-guy |
#28
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As I recall, it was The Bug, a cheap and friendly car for the times, that made VWs reputation in this country. And, OT but it might be useful, you might want to check out a more complex definition of liberal than the one I suspect you're using. Go on, take the test: www.politicalcompass.org There was a thread about this on the Open Discussion a while back. Cool site.
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Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell. -- Edward Abbey 1984 300SD: Hilda the veggie vundercar |
#29
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When the typical SUV weighs around 5000lb it is hard to stomach the idea of driving something weighing 2500lb. Momentum doens't favor the little one.
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Jeff M. Mercedes W123 DIY pages are now located here. 1983 / 1984 300D Sold 2000 CLK430 Cabriolet ~58k Sold 2005 Avalanche 4x4 ~66k |
#30
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OK, now I'm totally abetting this OT topic.
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Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell. -- Edward Abbey 1984 300SD: Hilda the veggie vundercar |
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