Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-14-2004, 07:29 PM
michakaveli's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 1,719
Anyone chip their E300 non-turbo?

I been contemplating for a while whether to chip my '97 E300. My main concern has been mileage while reliability is also a factor. The place I've had in mind is www.SpeedTuning.com

Any reviews guys?

__________________
#dieselFLEET
---------------
'97 E300
'99 E300
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-14-2004, 07:30 PM
michakaveli's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 1,719
Oppsss.. I meant http://www.speedtuningusa.com/
__________________
#dieselFLEET
---------------
'97 E300
'99 E300
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-14-2004, 07:59 PM
Mark Herzig's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 380
is there anything to chip? I mean with mechanical fuel injection (right?) it's all pretty simple.
__________________
Mark Herzig
1995 E300D 153K
1985 300D 142K (sold)
1979 450SL 122 miles (sold)
1992 500E 127K (sold)
1987 300SDL 132K (sold)
1986 300E 161K (sold)
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-14-2004, 08:05 PM
michakaveli's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 1,719
Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Herzig
is there anything to chip? I mean with mechanical fuel injection (right?) it's all pretty simple.

They reprogram your ECM technically, but many refer this generically as "chipping"
__________________
#dieselFLEET
---------------
'97 E300
'99 E300
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-14-2004, 08:17 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Az
Posts: 79
I have a 95 E300D. What claims do they make about the reprogramming?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-14-2004, 11:14 PM
michakaveli's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 1,719
Quote:
Originally posted by prb51
I have a 95 E300D. What claims do they make about the reprogramming?
This is the Dyno page

Go to th every bottom and you will see the E300 and further down the E300TD.

I also believe that those figures are at the rear wheels. Don't mark my words but I believe that from a previous email I had sent them a while back...
__________________
#dieselFLEET
---------------
'97 E300
'99 E300
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-15-2004, 01:11 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Az
Posts: 79
Interesting, but when does it make the extra hp? I'd have to see it graphed. If the extra hp/torque is developed over a wide range of rpm it might be of some benefit. On the other hand a spike hp/t gain is next to worthless. Chips/programming are usually pretty effective procedures but normally come at the expense of economy and sometimes increased emissions. I'd have a hard time getting excited about 15hp. Keep us posted if you op for the deal.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-15-2004, 07:52 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Milford, DE
Posts: 1,558
Nobody addressed Mark's question... To the best of my knowledge fuel control and timing on the OM606 is NOT controled by ANY electronic devices. What exactly are they "chipping" and how do they increase power without adding fuel?

IMHO these "performance chips" are pretty much BS. I've bought two chips for a BMW I owned and could not detect the slightest difference in performance. Save your money and if you are really interested in a higher performing car buy an E320 gasser.

Tim
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-15-2004, 09:17 AM
Rick Miley's Avatar
Spark Free
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Land O Lakes, FL
Posts: 3,086
The E300 is a drive-by-wire system. So while it has a mechanical injection pump, that pump is electronically controlled. I haven't done the chip, but one of our members in the UK did and posted about it a long time ago. Try searching for E300 in the Performance Paddock.
__________________
Rick Miley
2014 Tesla Model S
2018 Tesla Model 3
2017 Nissan LEAF
Former MB: 99 E300, 86 190E 2.3, 87 300E, 80 240D, 82 204D Euro
Chain Elongation References
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-15-2004, 10:39 AM
michakaveli's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 1,719
Quote:
Originally posted by TimFreeh
Nobody addressed Mark's question... To the best of my knowledge fuel control and timing on the OM606 is NOT controled by ANY electronic devices. What exactly are they "chipping" and how do they increase power without adding fuel?

IMHO these "performance chips" are pretty much BS. I've bought two chips for a BMW I owned and could not detect the slightest difference in performance. Save your money and if you are really interested in a higher performing car buy an E320 gasser.

Tim
An E320... Gas car? If I wanted a gas car then I would have bought an E320.

Anyway from my research I see that it increases the amount of fuel. Such that if I currently let the RPM's climb to 3K before I shift, where as I would only have to let the RPM's climb to a value less than 3K to achieve that same result. I'm going to try to contact them to see if they have any dyno information.
__________________
#dieselFLEET
---------------
'97 E300
'99 E300
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-15-2004, 01:40 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Milford, DE
Posts: 1,558
Rick

In a "drive by wire" system an electric motor moves the throttle plate instead of a complicated series of rods and pivot points. The motor moves the throttle arm instead of your foot - please correct me if I'm wrong here but the actual fuel control and governor are the same mechanical systems that have been in use for decades.
The amount of fuel that is injected for a given movement of the throttle arm is not effected at all by the a chip. UNLESS maybe the chip alters the characteristics of the throttle system so that a smaller push on the accelerator is translated into more movement of the throttle actuator. This would make the car seem faster.

At any rate I don't think I'd to the manufacturer for performance data. I'm sure they will tell you it will run 14 second quarters with a new chip.

Tim
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-15-2004, 02:19 PM
Rick Miley's Avatar
Spark Free
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Land O Lakes, FL
Posts: 3,086
Well, apparently the chip does something.

Thread 1

See Eddie Gilmartin's post in this thread, as well as Lightman's post below it explaining how the chips work in a Diesel.
Thread 2

(Edit)By the way, my diesels don't have throttle plates. But my E300 does have an electronically controlled turbo wastegate and EGR valve, which can certainly have an effect on performance. I haven't dug under the intake manifold to take a peek at the injection pump yet.
__________________
Rick Miley
2014 Tesla Model S
2018 Tesla Model 3
2017 Nissan LEAF
Former MB: 99 E300, 86 190E 2.3, 87 300E, 80 240D, 82 204D Euro
Chain Elongation References

Last edited by Rick Miley; 01-15-2004 at 02:28 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-15-2004, 03:20 PM
Zeitgeist's Avatar
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Cascadia
Posts: 2,304
Pardon me if I'm a bit dense, but I'm stumped as to how an NA diesel can be chipped to do anything other than adjust its idle, pump timing and/or possibly increasing the high rpm fuel load--for tiny gains in HP and possibly slight losses in MPG.

I've played with NA VW diesels and found that by advancing the IP timing I was able to improve throttle response, but that's about it. There was a slight corresponding loss in fuel mileage. Without increasing the volume and/or density of the air in the cylinder along with a corresponding increase in fuel volume, I'm not sure how any HP gains can be realized in an NA engine.

The '98-'99 E300 turbodiesels available here in the states 'may' benefit from "chipping" if the internal full load stop and IP timing can be adjusted in concert with higher turbo boost pressures. Don't the OM606 engines also have variable intake runners that are electronically or vacuum operated? Maybe this is another area where both NA and turbo E300D's 'might' benefit from chip tuning.

I hope someone will chime in with some solid unbiased info--I'm curious myself.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-15-2004, 03:37 PM
The Least of These
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Exton, PA
Posts: 559
Quote:
Originally posted by prb51
I'd have a hard time getting excited about 15hp.
Remember, that this is an 11% gain over stock. I agree that the real questions are where does it come into play, how is it done and does it increase fuel consumption in the range you drive it most.
__________________
1996 (W210) E300D 86K - Traded in for a Lexus
1992 (W124) 300D 2.5 Turbo 202K - Sold
1983 (W123) 300D, 146K - Sold
1970 280S, 263K - Sold - Beginning of addiction
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-15-2004, 04:26 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Milford, DE
Posts: 1,558
Zeitgeist

I don't think the OM606 has timing control that is effected by electronics. I've never had one apart but I'm pretty sure this engine uses basically the same injection systems as the OM602/OM603 engines. I know these engines use a mechanical spring loaded advance device because I had it in my had the other day. You can set the start of delivery but the advance is under control of the spring calibration in the IP advance device. I'm also stumped how a chip could make any difference since no electronics are used for the delivery of fuel.

Rick
Your engine certainly does have boost control that is directed by a computer, as does my 91 300D. You can increase boost up to 50PSI (If you disabled the overboost protection system - it steps in anything over 1.1 bar as I recall) but unless your injection pump is calibrated to deliver the correct FUEL charge for the new boost level you will not get any more power. Period. FUEL = POWER. THis is why I'm not sure how a chip can change things in an OM606. When you do look at your IP you will see it has lots of electronic connections - they control idle speed and I think there is another connection for a rack position sensor that gives the ECU controlling the boost a sense of how much throttle has been aplplied.

I did read the posts from the guy in Ireland - If his 97 is a new CDI it would make sense that a chip could change things alot.
but hey I'm a skeptic. I also don't believe thant K&N air filters enhance performance... Call me strange.

Tim

Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2024 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page