Not as I thought - Spring Installation Without Tool Not Possible
 

As some of you know I had a concept that I explored, in pulling the springs without the MB compressor. Well that part was fine. It felt controlled and safe. Putting it back is another story. It seems that the measurement of 1 to 2 inches that I needed to compress when removing the springs, was impacted by the normal bow of the spring into the spring case. When installing the spring it has no such bow and therefore more than 1 to 2 inches is required. More than I am comfortable trying to get out of the Harbor Freight outside compressors.

Need to ponder a different approach to get it back together.

Don

It's a wrestling match, but you can get the spring back in, but you need some sort of spring compressor. I managed with simply the two piece compressor that you get at AutoZone.

Good luck and be careful,

The next time you make a garage floor.... you place some pieces of half inch steel embedded with the flat at floor level... then when you need to do something like this you put a chain around the frame and weld the two ends to the floor... then use the floor jack to push the lower control arm up... then when you are through you cut the chain off the floor pad and go on your way....
However, I believe in using the proper spring compressors myself...

I have put the spring in using a threaded rod from the top when the spring is seated in from the top only. Then, I possitioned the bottom when the threaded rod compressed the spring about 3 inches.
Good luck, Adam

Close if not the same to my current thoughts.

Get 2 plates of steel (3/8"?)
In one plate Drill 4 holes for bolts that make sure it won't slip out of spring
In both plates, drill a hole for a 3/4" shaft
Insert shaft through engine compartment, through plate one down to and through plate 2, position nut and spin shaft into it.
Spin nut down ontop of plate 2 and tighten away.

Don

Don,
I think that's going the extra mile and would work great with good safety back-up if you do it that way. No way am I going to pay those big bucks for a spring compressor when they built pyramids thousands of years ago using simple physics.

how to compress: 2-ways
1. two people, one with strong hands
2. strong bailing wire
3. very large channel locks
4. various pliers and wire cutters

compress 2 rungs of spring with channel locks
while second person wraps tightly with precut
wire. move up the rungs a few inches and repeat ect
until spring is compressed enough.
if you can do with only one person, clamp the
channel locks with a clamp, maybe lock grips.

could also compress the rungs with two steel bars
and two screw clamps. this seems easier. one
person. i like it

:)
don

If I got my information correctly. It takes about 300 lbs per inch to compress the front springs on a SD.

Don

Ling threaded rod, couple nuts, couple U brackets to hold the spring, old wheel bearing and a foot of ridgid conduit. Home made spring compressor. Worked OK, bent one of the lower spring holders, neeed to be of stronger material. I can take pics if anyone is really interisted, but it's the same theory as the other two gentlemen posted. That hole underhood is the key, a base sits there and the rod down through the spring with something to hold it from the inside and you simply screw it up. Pretty simple. :)

Without sloting the plate, it won't go through the spring (duh) so I am looking at 2 approaches.

1. Take spare spring case (saddle the spring sits in on control arm) and mount it to my floor jack (maybe the whole control arm). Jack the spring up into the upper pocket then secure the compressed spring, remove jack...etc etc.

2. flat steel strip going through the spring with u-clamps holding it to the spring. Threaded rod from engine compartment.

Don

Red,
I did number 2 in your suggestions and it worked great.

Taking a break and letting my "experiment" sit to make sure it is safe.

My floor jack has a hole in contact point, so I bolted a spare spring case (saddle) to it and set the spring in it. I rolled it under the upper pocket and jacked it up. Once compressed enough, I put on the harbor freight compressors and 2 rachet tie downs. I have released the jack tension out have it under the spring, waiting to see if it secure and safe.

I felt safer using the jack because it is lots stronger than the spring and while the harbor freight compressors are rated for the load, I didn't like the idea of cranking down on the nut while it was under tension and watching the shaft bow. I respect the power of these springs.

While doing this it became I think reasonably apparent, that higher rated (5000 or 10,000 lbs) racket tie downs might be the simple and easy solution, however I have been working on the front end for 3 days and I just want it finished! I can experiment more on the next one, my wifes 300TD.

Pictures will follow once I know the proceddure worked.

Regards
Don

I first tried the route of using the jack to raise the spring and then secure it. Not a good way to go for a number of reasons so I built a compressor from parts at the hardware store. Basically it is a 5/8" threaded rod with various steel plates at both ends. Felt controlled and safe, but to be sure I kept the floor jack under the spring and used it to push the suspension up and then took up the slack on the shaft.

The drivers side is basically done.

This has been alot of work. I wonder what the labor cost would have been to have a pro do it?

I replaced, ball joints, trailing arm bushings, guide rod mounting (at the LCA) Bushings and bearing in the bearing support housing and shocks. Cleaned and painted everything.

Don

HOW WOULD WE KNOW ?
 

In case it does not work..
How about leaving a note on your kitchen table telling your wife how to find this forum and leave us a note.....like which hospital we can send flowers to.... you know... basic ' did not work ' information....

Life has it risks and at times we are called to carryout a task with higher risks. I have done things and been through things with much higher degrees of risk than the springs. If your not intuitive with tools and cause an affect scenarios one could get into trouble really quick with these springs. For myself, while I didn't enjoy most of it, I would do it again and most likley will on the 300TD, once I feel the ride difference. God I hope so. Picture of it almost done

Great Job Red!!!
I bet the other side will go together in 1/5th the time now that you have the procedure down and tools all laid out.
If the ride improvement awes you, maybe I'll put some new springs in mine as they are pretty inexpensive.
Nice work!
Adam

Thank you,

I found my springs to be in spec so I just cleaned um up. On another board someone who is suppose to be a top notch pro said that in his 30 years of working on MB, he has never "Not once" seen springs that needed to be replaced. He say's its always the bushings.

Again thanks for the pat on the back, I need it after 4 days of wrestling with this beast!

Don

Don,
Anytime - it's well deserved on your part for your perseverance.
Adam

Yeah I've heard that claim from experts (Stu or otherwise) that springs "never wear out". Well, they're SPRING STEEL, and they don't retain their original spring rate forever. How much the rate degrades over time is debateable. The assertion that rubber is most often the problem is very true - new rubber will make a BIG difference. Especially if the rubber was original. New springs will make a SMALL difference, if any. But they do wear out, or at least change in behavior from when new.

As to not using the proper tool, or using BAILING WIRE (I can't believe I read that), or anything else. Lemme get this straight. You people are willing to risk serious injury, possibly death, and spend FOUR DAYS dinking with Rube Goldberg methods... rather than spend $75 to rent the proper tool from Rusty? With my Klann I can remove the front springs from my W124 in ten minutes (each side), another ten minutes to re-install. Apparently your time is worth absolutely nothing. I just don't get the thought process behind setting your priorities. But, then again... whatever.... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I would have been happy to rent the proper MB compressor for $75.00. I didn't know it was available.

Don

Rusty (Cullens) used to rent it for $75 plus S&H, last time I checked. Dunno if the price went up or not. PP rents it for something like $90 plus S&H both ways. You do need to plunk down a hefty deposit which is credited back to you card upon safe return of the priceless tool.

:D :D

I just want to support Dave's post... there are no magic springs.. they follow the same rules as any metal.... and they are not dependant on number of miles... only if they the cars were stored jacked up with no load on the springs would the length of deterioration be greatly reduced.... Having worked at a spring and brake shop at one time... giving me the chance to drive vehicles before and after front end jobs and spring rearching I know many of you would be surprised at how improved the ride would be with new springs...

I have been told PP is not a Klan but rather Sir, which was talked down so bad it caused me to try to do it without one.

In the end I made my own and based on its condition after the 2 springs would say is up to the task of doing more. Cost me $32.00 in cash and (2 days of tinkering with concepts).

Don

I am no spring expert. My springs matched the unloaded height spec and therefore I felt buying new ones would have been a waste. I have no point of view on how long they last, just passing on something stated by a "pro" at another site.

Don

PP does indeed rent the SirTools compressor, not a Klann. It's more annoying to use, IMO, but perfectly safe and still better than anything else other than a Klann. I believe Rusty also rents a ST unit, but I'm not sure. For some chassis, like the 123 (and possibly 126), you need to "open up" the hole in the chassis above the spring to make the ST shaft slip through. They screwed up on the design and it's just a smidge to large. The Klann squeaks through perfectly. It's a shame PP didn't want to fork over another couple hundred bucks to buy the OE tool to rent out, but oh well.

75 to rent this spring compressor is such a rip-off in my opinion! A little mechanical ingenuity and appreciation for the powers of the spring and how to control it's loaded pressure will save you BIG bucks, improve your mechanical skill, confidence, and not fatten up someone elses billfold.
There are so many things that can be done without the special tools, like rear whell bearings on a 123 for example. Sure, the right tool is nice to have and sometimes is faster, but not what they want for something like the spring compressor - what a rip both to buy or rent!!
Have fun, and BIGRED, Great job - you would do it over again the same way, right?
Adam

Let me correct a few posted opinions that I read.

1. gsxr.
I know you don't like the Sir Tool. You never have. I know that the Klann tool is the "Mercedes" of the compressor tools. But I have the Sir Tool and I would not bad mouth it. It does the job. safely and I had no problems using the tool on my 123. I DID NOT have to enlarge the spring opening as you describe. Again I did the front and rear of a 82 300TD with no problems.

2.
BIGRED congrats on getting the 126 springs back in. As I posted my brothers indy shop uses the outside strut compressor tool and a floor jack. If you use the treaded rod and plate method consider using a long nut so that your grabbing a large amount of threads. This will add a little safety. More threads = more strenght.
Ok the 123. As posted I have a 123 and 126 and have removed both springs. The 123 front springs are taller and not as wide as the 126 springs so you tend to get more bow with the 123 springs. You definately need a little more care when doing the 123. I know your happy with the job you did on the 126. I just wanted to give you a heads up on the 123 springs.

Dave

Here is the Sir Tool slipping into the 123 spring opening. I have the center screw upside down in this photo just to show you that it fits. The top is the largest diameter on the screw. Hope this helps.

Dave,

Thanks for the info. You may have a newer version of the ST compressor, perhaps they modified it to fit better. Or perhaps your car has slightly larger openings, who knows! I know for a fact some people have trouble with the ST on certain chassis, you're the first person I've heard of who's had no problems. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the ST is safe, cheaper, and works OK - but just not as easily as the Klann. I don't really think that's badmouthing it. If you are going to BUY a compressor though, I would very strongly recommend the Klann. For rental, either will do. I've used both so I'm talking out my rear on this. The ST may work easier on some springs with more space between coils, but on the 124 it was a PITA and the Klann was not. The Klann plates are thinner and the shaft-to-plate lock design allows much more moevement, the ST requires precise alignment with the hex flats in the plate, and can be a real bear. I fought with the ST one time for 45 minutes to get it in place - drove me nuts. I just never had any trouble with the Klann, ever. Some more photos of the ST compressor, as rented from PP, are at this URL:

http://www.serenitysys.com/MB/Service_Info/W123_Front_Suspension/index.htm

(that washer might be an aftermarket addition, I dunno.)


On a side note, Klann makes the compressor for Mercedes, that you would buy from the MB dealer. The Klann unit I own has the 12-digit Mercedes tool part number on it. So you are more correct than you thought referring to it as the "Mercedes" of compressors... it really is the Mercedes tool! :D :D

Yes they have redesigned the Sir Tool compressor. Pobably because of the very problem that you discribed and what the link shows. The new design does not have this problem. Additionally engaging the bottom hex head in the reciever is not a critical as long as you have rotated the screw 90 degrees once the bottom plate is engaged. The screw now has a flat section that allows it to slide into the botom plate. But once turned 90 degreees it will not slip out of the plate. The hex head is still there but they added the flat section.
Yes the Klann is great but $550 for the Sir Tool and $799 for the Klann.

Dave

gsxr: sir, a shop is going to require tools like the Sl/Klann compressor and are willing to spend the money because they will use it many times and they need to be efficient and safe. they are willing to spend the time and money to train their people to properly use it. time is money to them. the DIYer is going to do a spring compression job once or twice over a number of years. from what i have read in postings, these compressors are tricky
to use. when i say to compress two adjacent rungs with clamps
or large channel locks and then rap it with bailing wire, you
will know right then weather it will hold. one step at a time with
due diligence and good materials. i doubt very much that a 19in
uncompressed spring, compressed 4ins, a half inch at a time
is life threating. it may take an hour to do, but it can be done.

don

I have a better idea. With the spring still in the car, but slightly compressed from full droop, wrap lots and lots of bailing wire around each coil. Then slowly lower the control arm. Remove the bailing-wire-wrapped spring and give it to you child as a toy to play with while you tinker with the car. When ready to re-install, the spring is already wire-wrapped and set to install, no pliers & wrapping needed! Why didn't I think of that before? I could have saved $75 on a rental! What was I thinking! :rolleyes:

Any experience with this type of compressor?
 

Do any of you guys have experience trying to use a spring compressor similar to the one shown here:

eBay Spring Compressor auction

It seems like a better design for stronger springs like the ones on Mercedes since it keeps the force pulling through the center axis of the spring, but I don't know whether the design would work right or not without trying it. I was hoping someone here could give me some personal experience first. FWIW, my car is a 1986 300SDL.

Thanks,
David Woods

David,

The quick answer is it won't work. It looks the same as one I bought from harbor Freight.

Don