Turbodiesel aircraft engine - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

engatwork · #1 01-27-2004, 04:54 PM

Check it out:

http://www.smaengines.com/en/avantages.shtml

jbaj007 · #2 01-27-2004, 07:06 PM

Interesting to note the max. altitude at 12,500 ft. and the critical altitude at 10,000 ft.

Even with the turbo, I had some slowness when I was at ~10,800 this summer in the 300SD; makes sense.

Quite a piece of machinery.

snoopy007 · #3 01-27-2004, 10:33 PM

The general aviation manuf. Have be working on several test engines. Centurion has an approved one, and Lycoming is working one. Porche put an gas engine in a aircraft now we need to get a MB Diesel the air. Any Ideas on which modle OM would be best??

mplafleur · #4 01-27-2004, 10:37 PM

When I looked at SMA diesels before, I don't remeber this one. It just might fit the bill.

Rotary's out, diesels in again. God, I'm fickle!

#5 01-27-2004, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by snoopy007
Any Ideas on which modle OM would be best??

Turbo is a must. Anyone who has driven in the mountains knows why.

I'd say OM617 for durability and how it loves the constant high rpms. OM603 if you need more power. OM612 if you want the newest technology.

The problem would be turning around the engine to drive with the flywheel forward without having cooling problems or heavy gearbox.

rwthomas1 · #6 01-27-2004, 10:55 PM

No way ANY MB car derived diesel will ever fly! Look at the fully equiped weight of that sma, 487lbs. Thats 305 cubes and 230hp. Whats the lightest OM series weigh? 600lbs? 700lbs? With a fairly paltry 150hp max? The auto engine would have to produce at least 300hp to make it worthwhile. Thats some diesel engine that aerodiesel. My question is if it runs on jetA will it run on Kerosene or Diesel? Sure would be cheaper provided you can keep it from gelling in the cold at altitude... RT

reddog · #7 01-28-2004, 12:39 PM

That's what we need, more oil burners. Local price for diesel is $1.749 a gal. Gasoline is $1.599. With all the 747s, 737s, airbuses, learjets, G.A. turboprops, etc. not to mention home heating and some power plants burning oil, and now light G.A. aircraft going to diesel, we can expect to be paying $3.00 or $4.00 for diesel in the near future. Of course, aircraft, ships, towboats, and yachts don't have to pay the road tax which, here in Pa. is around $.50 per gal.

mplafleur · #8 01-28-2004, 01:12 PM

487 lbs is way too much, and I heard they may want up to $70,000 for that engine.

This one is better at 327 lbs, 160-200hp, but at $25-28k it's still too steep for me.

http://www.deltahawkengines.com/specif00.htm

#9 01-28-2004, 02:02 PM

http://www.dieselair.com/

A forum and newsletter.

#10 01-28-2004, 02:12 PM

this famed Detroit firm also built the Liberty aircraft engine in WWI (which subsequently found its way into many speedboats); built an improved version of the Rolls-Royce Merlin in WWII, and built civilian and military marine engines (three giant Packard V-12s were inside each PT boat).

frednoonan1937 · #11 01-28-2004, 07:53 PM

Michael Zoche Antriebstechnik - Keferstrasse 13 - 80802 Munich - Germany Tel. (+49 89) 344591 - Fax (+49 89) 342451

The Diesel engine has demonstrated the lowest specific fuel consumption of any prime mover (as low as .26 lb/hp hr for very large 2-stroke marine Diesels). It uses fuel which is much cheaper and still contains more energy per gallon than gasoline or avgas. Decades ago there were several Diesel aircraft engines (built by Guiberson, Packard, Rolls-Royce, Clerget, Fiat and others). In the 1930´s the Junkers "Jumo 205" supercharged 2-stroke Diesel was used in scheduled transatlantic service between Europe and South America; it had a cruise BSFC of .356 lb/hp hr and a specific weight of only 1.5 lb/hp. "Jumo" Diesel engines delivered full sealevel power up to 40,000 feet and powered aircraft flying at 50,000 feet.

Following these almost forgotten examples we are developing a new piston engine for general aviation: the ZOCHE aero-diesel.

It is a direct drive, air cooled, radial two-stroke cycle Diesel with 4 cylinders per row. It features two stage charging (turbo- and supercharger), direct fuel injection and intercooling.

Compared to the opposed-cylinder, spark ignited aircraft engine, ZOCHE aero-diesels offer many advantages:

The engine has half the specific weight, half the frontal area and burns less fuel. This leads to remarkable improvements of aircraft parameters: payload, range and speed will be markedly better
Environmentally progressive - low CO2 emissions due to low fuel consumption, low NOX due to two stroke principle, low soot and unburnt hydrocarbon emissions due to modern high pressure injection. Diesel and jet fuels contain no toxic substances like lead, benzene or scavengers. No fuel availability problem wordwide
Very low noise emission due to two-stroke and turbocharging.
No electromagnetic interference.
Very low vibration level - the 4 cylinder bank can be 100% balanced for all rotating and reciprocating inertias. Torque vibration is minimal due to one power pulse per cylinder per revolution.
Full aerobatic pressure lubrication.
Greatly reduced fuel costs - ZOCHE aero-diesels burn fewer lb/hp hr; Diesel or jet fuel has more lb/gallon and costs less per gallon.
Easy to operate - one power lever only. No mixture, no alternate air, no aux fuel pump, no magneto switches, no mandatory temperature, boost or power restrictions.
Good reliability and low maintenance cost due to the lack of a reduction drive, the very low parts count and the use of reliable Diesel components. Streamlined installation without any hoses.
High inflight reliability - no carburetor-icing, no magneto or spark-plug problems, no vapor lock. Turbine inlet temperature is so low that it needs no monitoring. Even cylinder head temperatures are not critical.
Safe electrical power - directly driven overload protected brushless alternator - no belts, gears, or bearings.
Reduced 'hot and high' problems - sealevel power at least up to 9,000 feet.
Reliable starting at low temperatures - patented pneumatic start system provides instant manifold pressure. Cold start and acceleration to 2,500 rpm within a second has been demonstrated. Start air reservoir is refilled by a manifold air driven free piston pump. If necessary this pump can be operated on any 2 bar (28 psi) air supply.
Dramatically reduced fire hazard - Diesel fuel has a much lower flammability. Exhaust manifold temperature is about 720°F lower.

The very compact ZOCHE aero-diesel incorporates the latest cylinder technology as well as refinements like tungsten counterweights and full aerobatic pressure lubrication. The ZOCHE aero-diesel's high efficiency reduces the amount of rejected heat, thereby minimizing cooling air requirement. Cooling problems are further reduced by the fact that there are no areas in this Diesel engine which demand such exact cooling as the cylinder head of a spark ignited engine. Charge air pressure is generated by a combination of a highly efficient mechanical blower and a newly developed advanced turbocharger. This reduces power loss at altitude. Recent improvements include a monobloc intercooler arrangement without any plumbing and the integrated dry sump oil reservoir. The fuel injection pump together with its feed pump, the fuel filter and all connecting plumbing are integrated into the crankcase assembly. The intake manifold is an integral part of the crankcase casting, further reducing the parts count and improving reliability. In 1992 the project was awarded the prestigious Philip Morris Research Prize.

More info:
Specifications

Zoche aero-diesels brochure (PDF 7,8 MB)

Test Bench Video

Pictures

Gallery

Frequently Asked Questions

For more information about our product, please consult our frequently asked questions list or send us an e-mail.

dmorrison · #12 01-29-2004, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rwthomas1
My question is if it runs on jetA will it run on Kerosene or Diesel? Sure would be cheaper provided you can keep it from gelling in the cold at altitude... RT

Diesel at the airport? You won't find it. That's why they have geared it towards Jet-A. The majority of medium to large airports carry Jet-A. You won't find it a some very small runwayed airports. They are geared towards 80LL 100LL for the gas piston aircraft. That's all that can fly in and out of a short runway, normally, lets not get into helicopters etc.
To run street sold Diesel in an aircraft they would have to provide a STC for this purpose during certification of the engine. But the majority of the airports would not be set up to refuel an aircraft with Diesel. So when I do buy this diesel powered aircraft I have a logistic problem with finding fuel.

Dave

engatwork · #13 01-29-2004, 06:22 AM

Quote:

So when I do buy this diesel powered aircraft I have a logistic problem with finding fuel.

I was thinking the same thing - how hard it would be to find diesel at an airport. I guess you could always syphon some out of the tractor that cuts the grass

. In addition, an airplane is not something you want to run for long after the low fuel warning light comes on

.

mplafleur · #14 01-29-2004, 07:33 AM

All aircraft diesel engines are certified for Jet-A since that is what you'll find at the airport. As for me, mine would be in an experimental so I could run anything I darn well please, including biodiesel if I wanted.

Zoche was been working on his engine for more than 20 years. Most everyone in the airplane community has given up or died while waiting for him to furnish a production engine. He doesn't even show up at Oshkosh anymore and I think his US website is kerput. Although I think his design is the best of the bunch, I can't wait that long either, even ithough I won't actually need an engine for 3 or more years.

whunter · #15 11-19-2006, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by engatwork

Check it out:

http://www.smaengines.com/en/avantages.shtml

The link is dead...