Delvac 1 Help
 

I started using DELVAC 1 last month. I did the first oil change today at 1800 miles and the oil looked like molases, when do i do the next one and when cazn i start doing regular interval oil changes, and when should the regular intervals be? also, i purchased an oil analizer bottle, when should i submit the sample for them to analize?

Oil in a typical Diesel engine will look like molasses very quickly. Sometimes after a trip around the block. Diesel engines are like that. Don't worry about it.

My guess is that the best time to send an oil sample for analysis is at the end of a typical oil usage cycle. As in right when you change. Part of the analysis is to suggest that you're waiting too long between changes or that you can leave the oil in longer without detriment.

Sixto
95 S420
87 300SDL

yes i agree, it is already like molASSIS AFER 1 MILE

When you take the sample take it "mid stream" during a hot oil change. This insures you get an accurate sample.

On Delvac 1 and other synthetics, you can probably go 5000 miles or longer depending on the results of your analysis. Most people here will tell you the oil turns black instantly after an oil change. When I do my 2-hour oil change I tilt the car to help it drain better, then flush it with fresh oil. This way, I get rid off a lot more soot which likes to accumulate on the bottom of the oil pan and the oil stays semi-transparent for a few hundred miles.

The main reason why fresh oil becomes dark very quickly is because about 1 quart of OLD dirty oil stays in the oil cooler lines and the oil cooler (located next to the radiator). The soot and sludge in this 1 quart of old oil are enough to make your new oil turn black very quickly after starting and driving for a short distance (several miles). Some of the leftover oil in the bottom of your oil sump also adds soot and sludge to the new oil.

A regular oil change (either by removing the oil sump's drain plug or by sucking through the oil dipstick tube by a topsider) does not remove the old dirty oil in the oil cooler lines and the oil cooler. I have found that the topsider method actually removes more dirty oil from your oil sump than the conventional drain plug method (not a single drop of old oil dripping from the drain plug hole after just several minutes of sucking). When I change oil (be sure that the oil is HOT and HOT), I park the car with its front downward on an inclined driveway, or jack up the car's rear if it's on a level surface. Next, I use a Mityvac oil pump to suck out the old oil through the oil dipstick tube. It takes only 5 minutes to do a pretty thorough oil change, and everything stays clean without a mess.

BTW, don't attempt to remove the oil cooler lines with the intention to completely remove the old oil. It's a pain to remove these things, and you will also create a whole mess of spilled dirty oil on your driveway or garage floor. Time is precious, so do not waste your time for being paranoid about how to remove all the old oil to prepare for a new oil change.

Eric

Eric,

Don't muddle up Joe's mind with facts.

Have a great day,
Change oil hot and change oil often.

240Joe, I am serious, but maybe you're imagining something else. I don't spend 2 hours continuously flushing the engine with fresh oil. Most of the time is spent on draining and usually I just run a quart of fresh oil through the crankcase and filter housing before putting the drain plug back on. It really makes a difference in how long the oil stays clean after an oil change.

Dieseladdict,

You are completely wasting that quart of oil you "flush" with. With all of the places the old oil is trapped in the engine, you are fooling yourself if you believe that is a worthwhile procedure.

Larry,

You're the person that seems to be into witchcraft. This mantra of changing your oil every 3kmiles is rediculous. You should know better but you refuse to look at it with a clear mind.

Joe
Don't change it often, you're wasting your time and money!

240Joe,

DieselAddict is spending his own money as he sees fit. What is motivating YOU for such a crusade? The man is just being thorough.

Have a great day,
Change oil hot and change oil often.

Yippee! Another oil thread! :D :D

Kobeck, 1800 miles was a little premature, but that's OK. It will probably turn black quickly but this is normal - don't worry about it. The safe interval is determined by oil analysis and will vary with each different engine, although generally OM61x motors produce more soot and can't go as long as OM60x. You didn't mention what year/model you have (that's nice to put in your signature, along with your name, btw.) Anyway, 5kmi is probably a conservative estimate for future changes, although I wouldn't go beyond 7.5k or 10k without oil analysis to back that up. My analyses show that my 603 engines can go 10-15k safely while my 617 can go 7.5-10k at most, assuming a 2% soot limit (that's Mercedes limit, the Delvac-1 can suspend 4%, while Mobil-1 can only suspend about 2%.) For oil analysis, I buy kits from Snider:

http://www.sniderpetroleum.com/oilanalysis.html

Specify the "extended drain" kits, $12.50 each plus S&H - it's cheaper if you buy several at a time.


Best regards,

I know, I know, use the search...........but since we are having another oil thread anyway, is just about everyone using synthetic in their diesels? I have 2 diesels but have not switched and wondering if I should.

Besides longer "potential" intervals between change, are the lubrication advantages worth the difference in cost?

Which brand is best? And there are no issues switching in a high(er) mileage engine. For some reason, I used to think (or be told) the one switched right after a car was broken in or not at all. At least with american gassers.

It is an 87 300 td wagon, this is my first time switching to delvac so i was told the first couple times youi need to change early to clean out the engine, i thought i would do the next one at arounf 3000 and then after that go to 5000 with an analysis

No problem switching at high miles, unless the engine leaks badly already, then you'll just waste oil. I switched my cars when purchased at 189k, 229k, and 202k respectively with no problems. Stick with brands that use Group IV/V true PAO synthetics (Mobil, Amsoil, Red Line), not the "fake" Group III junk (Castrol, Valvoline, Rotella, Delo, and most others). There is no "potential" longer interval, that's reality - would you change your dino oil every five hundred miles? No? Why not? Because it's not "worn out". Same with Group IV/V synthetics, they're not worn out at 3k or 4k. They still retain their viscosity, additive packages, etc etc... changing sooner is throwing away money. The advantages are numerous but it depends on what matters to you personally. I like the added protection, decreased engine oil & coolant temps, better MPG, quiet valve lifters, etc etc... But yes, as the dino crowd will point out, your engine will last just as long when using dino oil changed as MB specifies. Most cars die before the engine fails anyway (wreck, rust, etc).

I'd leave the current fill in for 5000 and have that analyzed. The initial 1800 probably cleaned things pretty well. If the cost is not a problem, you could do the 3k followed by 5k, that's a little overkill IMO but sure not going to hurt anything. I have the same engine as you, btw - should be getting 28-30mpg on the freeway. Nice car! :)

Dave, you and others have stated that Mobil 1 is a true synthetic. I like Mobil 1 and use it in my cars, but there was a link to some article here recently written by some Canadian and he seemed to imply Mobil 1 isn't a true synthetic, only Redline and Amsoil. What's your take on that? Redline and Amsoil are more expensive and probably superior, but I don't know in what way.

Sadly, the same company sometimes ships different products in different countries. For example, some Castrol Syntec oils in Europe are Group IV/V, while we get the crappy Group III Syntec over here in the USA. The opposite seems to be true for Mobil, we get good stuff in the USA, but other countries may get Group III. Same product name, different product in the bottle! Nice, huh? I'm assuming the Canadian stuff may be different. Often the viscosity is different as well, I've heard of a Mobil-1 5W-50 for example that may be a Group III oil.

Anyway, AFAIK, all Amsoil and Red Line oils are true PAO Group IV/V. Of the two, you can get Amsoil cheaper if you try hard enough, down in the $4-$5/qt range (same as Mobil-1). Red Line is usually another couple bucks per quart. I don't think there's any significant advantage to the Red Line stuff to justify the cost. IMO, any Group IV/V oil of the correct viscosity should be fine.

:)

gsxr,

Very good posts. Thank you.

Have a great day,

I'm going to switch to Delvac 1 for my next change, should I go with 1k or 2k mile changes? I'll also flush the engine twice during each change. Does that sound about right?

Almost. But 500 mile changes with triple flushes in between is preferred. Oh and don't forget to sacrifice a saucer of gasoline to the diesel gods afterwards, or your pistons will melt! :eek: :p :rolleyes:

Hmm, how about the Royal Purple Synthetic oils? 15W40 and 20W50 are priced about the same (sometimes less though) as good ol' red capped Mobil 1.

Hatterasguy,

You are going to flush the engine with WATER???????? :-)

On your OM603 what are the additive levels in the sampled oil at that interval. When performing an oil analyse on my OM606.912, my soot level is still relatively low while additives are decently depleted, this was off of my last analysis a 8,086miles. How are you getting such high oil change intervals?

With continued use of Delvac at a specified oil interval of approx. 8k, would the additive content slowly increase due to the increased "cleanliness" of the engine? I also performed the EGR mod with about 1k miles after my last change so I'm curious to see how that impacts my next analysis results.

Alan Hamm sure. Ok gsxr 500 mile changes it is. I don't want to let the oil get black!

Speedy, I *think* Royal Purple is good stuff but I'm not sure. Same with Motul. It also depends what country you're buying in, as mentioned earlier.


Michael, the TBN numbers seem to be fine with either M-1 or D-1. I've been changing at ~10k for the last couple changes. Some people whined about my silicon numbers but the lab didn't throw a red flag. Here's a PDF with the data from my blue '87:

http://www.meimann.com/docs/mercedes/oil_analysis_87b.pdf

I know some people who go 15-20kmi with analysis, although IMO at that level the soot is questionable when past Mercedes' unofficial (?) 2% limit. (I say unofficial because I can't find that in print anywhere, but the MBCA Diesel Technical Advisor says it's true and I don't have reason to doubt him...)


:)

gsxr,

Your 7.5kmile to 10kmile change interval for our OM61X engines flies in the face of our board expert Larry "change your oil continuously" Bible.

Watch out, he'll be calling you an environmental extremist, a liberal, a member of the radical left, a child molesterer, etc., etc.

However, I agree with you 1000%. Finally the truth is gaining traction.

Joe
:D

I hope he isn't a priest :eek:

God damn it would you just let it go? Before you spit out any more of your "facts" you might want to read up more on Dave's oil analysis results. The 10K oil change intervals are used for his 603 engine, not the 617. He actually concluded it's safer not to go over 5000 miles on the 617. As for me I just follow what the owner's manual says. If you call that witchcraft, then I really have no further comment.

You guys are fanatical when it comes to SYNTHETIC oils..........THis is something for "THE O'RIELY FACTOR"

Just to clarify my OPINIONS... I feel that with PAO synthetic oils, 61x engines are probably safe in the 5k-7.5k range without analysis, and 60x can bump that to 7.5k-10k without analysis. I don't recommend exceeding those approximate numbers without having your specific engine oil analyzed. The analysis results for MY engines show I can go a little higher in some cases. Other people's engines can do even better. AND...

...It's also highly dependant on your driving habits! Someone who spends 95% of the time on freeway trips of 500 miles can probably go 25kmi betwen changes, as that type of service is very easy on the oil and creates almost no soot. Cold weather, cold starts, idling, low RPM, low load, etc will all increase soot, reduce oil temp, increase acids, and generally create the need to change more frequently. Synthetics can deal with this better than dino, hence the longer interval (even in 'severe service' conditions.)

IIRC, the owner's manual states somewhere around 7.5k for normal use, or 3k under severe service? And that's for plain old dino oil. I do agree that if you're using dino oil in a turbocharged engine (including MB turbodiesels), changing often is a very good idea.

:cool:

Dieseladdict,

What's the matter, the facts starting to interfere with your fairy tales?

Now that you and the great Larry "change your oil continuously, even while you drive" Bible have been proven WRONG, you go into the attack mode again.

It really is very simple. Just as gsxr said, the 3kmile oil change myth HAS been proven dead.

Get it? DEAD....over with, finished.;)

Joe

Dave, the owner's manuals for the 603 as well as the 61x engines say severe service is 2500 miles, normal is 5000. Su Ritter (author of the MB E-class Bible) said turbocharged engines should be considered as running in severe mode all the time, but I think he meant when using dino oil. Like you said, everyone's car and driving habbits are different. I personally prefer not to go over 5000 miles even with synthetic because 5000 miles for me means almost a year and because I'd rather change it early than bother with oil analysis and save a few bucks.

240Joe, I'm stating the facts here, no fairy tales, and I don't know what you're talking about. I'm really tired of arguing with someone like you who just jumps around and twists what others say. I'm done talking to you.

Dieseladdict,

3kmiles is just a joke under normal conditions. That has been my point from the beginning. It is totally unnecessary, a waste of time and money, and is ONLY based on old wive's tales. There is no modern scientific basis for it.

If you have a OM61X and you use dino diesel oil, and half a mix of highway and city driving, 5kmiles is fine. If you use synthetic under these conditions 7.5kmiles is fine, but many of us are using 10kmiles, or more, and have no problems.

Those are the facts. You can deal with them as you see fit.

Joe

Really! I'll have to take a peek at my owner's manual again. Stu's book as a whole slew of errors, I've been meaning to document them & post on the web somewhere (as well as send the list to Stu in case they want to fix it before a second printing...)

:)

Interesting quotes
 

"Short trips are the worse, so changing oil at 3000 on a car that never really gets warm up is probably about right."

(240Joe, 03-17-2001)

and

"Let's see if I can get it right....change your oil hot, and change it often."

(240Joe, 01-08-2001)

and

"I couldn't agree with Larry Bible more."

(240Joe, 01-08-2001)

OK, that last one is out of context, but it was just too good to pass up.

Joe, it would appear that you have become much more of a zealot against frequent oil changes then you used to be. Please enlighten us with what caused you to change your mind.

And, hows the weather up there in Collinsville, Illinois?

Dave, I found it. Take a look at p. 168. Here it is for those who don't have the book (the MB E-class Bible):

"As with all diesel engines, rigorous oil change frequency is the key to long life. The factory-specified change interval for normal service is 5000 miles and severe operating conditions require 2500 mile changes. Turbocharged diesel engines should be considered to be running under severe operating conditions all the time."

The 5000 and 2500 mile intervals match what the owner's manual says as well, though it doesn't mention the turbocharged severe thing. This is for the 616, 617 and 603 engines.

As I said earlier I personally believe to follow what MB says and while it's highly likely one can go over 5000 miles without damage, especially on synthetic, I choose not to because it's cheap insurance and because I don't put many miles on my cars.

Palangi, nice. ;) Obviously the man converted to the other side.

More weak thinking by this group. You need to be very, very specific when talking about oil change intervals. This thread was talking about normal operating conditions on our OM61X engines only.

Many short trips where the engine never warms up is a severe operating condition. Look it up.

And if you are saying I agreed with Larry on something, I'll agree with you.

What's interesting about the Stu Ritter quote is that the Diesel Doctor on MBZ.com changes his mobile 1 synthetic oil at 10kmiles. He is Stu's smarter brother.

Take that.

Joe:D

Palangi

Why is it that I knew you from Texas before I looked it up?

Where the hell is Ignorant Ridge, TX anyway?:D

Joe

Joe, I guess you just knew that a lot of the smarter members and contributors are from Texas. Get used to it.

Thank you for providing all the free entertainment the last few days, but please don't feel compelled to keep making A on our account.

Well, it's been 3000 miles, gotta go change the oil on the old 240D, like the ownwer's manual specifies.

Palangi

Smarter members from Texas....hehehehehehe...that is funny. You are a card.

Since you base your oil change interval on witchcraft, I've heard that if you put eye of newt in your fuel tank once a month, you won't have any black smoke. Also it cures bad breath and impotency, a frequent Texan problem.




Joe:D

What? The owners manual is witchcraft?

Palangi,

Dieseladdict posted this "The 5000 and 2500 mile intervals match what the owner's manual says as well, though it doesn't mention the turbocharged severe thing. This is for the 616, 617 and 603 engines."

What are you saying?

Joe

HeHeHe.... I thought you might take the bait, but you're too smart for that. I was referring to the 75 240D (616.916) where the maintenance schedule specifies 3000 miles.

On the 123 240D's, I believe you are right, the book say's 5000. Since there is very little real difference between a 616.916 vs a 616.912, it makes one wonder why MB extended the oil change recommendation. My guess is, it was because the oil quality improved significantly, say, 1977 vs 1968.

Just for your information, I also think that 3000 is too soon, assuming that a good universal grade oil is being used and no other negative factors are involved. I go 5000 on all of mine. At the moment, For the time being, I have gone to 2500 on the 300D only because oil analysis shows potassium, which is probably from coolant (although analysis does not show antifreeze in the oil). If this clears up over the next few changes, I will go back to 5000.

Sebenny trees

That's another good point. The interval specified in the owner's manuals was based on the quality of oil commonly available at that time, i.e. back in the mid 1980's. When it comes to oils, well, we've come a long way baby! Current Mercedes engines with the FSS setup tell the owner to have the oil changed based on the computer's perception of engine operating conditions, but I think the interval is roughly 8k-18kmi (!!). They also *require* the use of synthetic oils, I believe (don't quote me on that.)

(stir stir stir)

:D

Exactly.... The first multigrade universal oils appeared in the early 70's. Prior to that time, MBNA was recommending stuff like Pennzoil 10w40 and actually recommending against Rotella-T. No wonder all those 220D's croaked before 100,000 in spite of 3K oil changes.

well, thanks for clearing up my question about when to change my oil, lol....................but seriously, WHEN should i? i have a 87 300 td wagon, i did first oil change with delvac 1 at 1800 miles, i will do the nest one at 3000 miles and the third one at 5000 mile and THAT 3rd one i will do analysis, is that good?

The statement that oil technology has improved drastically is valid, but let's not forget that some of our cars are 20+ years old. A brand new gasser Mercedes won't put anywhere near as much as stress on the oil as our beloved W123 diesels and that's part of the reason for the extended drain intervals on newer cars. You're correct about newer MB's requiring synthetic (98+ model years if I'm not mistaken).

kobeck, your plan is AOK. You don't really want to do analysis on the first change (maybe two) after switching a car that has been on dino for years, because it will flush out some old buildup. That could skew the analysis results. At the second or third change the data should be good. Assuming you analyze at 5k and there are no abnormalities, you generally base your interval on the soot percentage, figuring 2% as the general limit. So if the analysis shows 1% soot at 5kmi, you can estimate that a good interval is ~10kmi, when the engine should kit ~2%. Disable the EGR if you haven't already, btw.


DA, I understand what you're saying about our older cars being harder on oil, but don't completely agree. ;) I also don't have hard data to refute the notion so the following is my opinion. The newer diesels produce less soot, so they can safely use the relatively high FSS interval. Hence the MB FSS upper limit near 20kmi (!) where many of our older MB's probably shouldn't be going past 10-15k. Gassers are a totally different story, they can often go 20k+ (all this is assuming non-severe service). I do think 616/617 are harder on oil than 601/602/603, which in turn may be a little rougher than the new 606 engine. Anyhoo, IMO it's a good idea to do at least one analysis on your engine so you have a rough idea of what's happening inside... :) :)

WHAT IS THE EGR ???

Exhaust Gas Recirculation...Which there seem to be many thoughts about what to do with it. It's an emission control that I kept seeing people here disconnect, and put one of these;) next to where they say they only use the car offroad. But I'm all for cleaner air, and if it's not working right fixing it. By controlling the amount of exhaust gas put back in the intake it cut nitrose oxide (NOX) one of the sunlight reactive gasses that make smog, but if there's lots of blowby dumps too much oily, sooty reside into the cylinders. I just going on second hand info, so anybody have more info?