Good luck with the business!

Just a small thing I noticed on your site.

Balanced/matched set of five (6) injectors

Not a big deal, but don't know if you noticed it.

__________________
RT


1984 300D---Sold
1995 E420 - 106K - Brilliant Silver Metallic/Orion Gray --- Sold
1984 300SD - 151K Manganese Brown Metallic/Mostly Black --- Sold
1982 240D - 79K - Manila Beige/Palomino---Sold

Thanks, fixed it today. Still tweaking stuff, hopefully will get things going soon and have the site cleaned up also.

__________________
1984 300D Turbo - 4-speed manual conversion, mid-level resto

1983 300D - parts car

1979 300TD Auto - Parts car.

1985 300D Auto - Wrecked/Parts.


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"If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there". Lewis Carrol

god I need a new set cant wait till I can affoard them in june. very nice job

Having only the shop manual for reference my first impression was that there must be some reason that yall have not oriented your nozzles towards Earth....
Then the difference in the particularly RIGID straight lines of TomJ's machine compared to the "California flexible" (?) Artsy work of Jbaj007's curly que sprung to mind....
But careful analysis of Jbaj007's facts ( uses cooking oil, has the tester with horizontal orientation sitting on his patio table ) makes it clear he has designed a dual purpose machine... This is a FLAME THROWER/pop off valve tester which is used to ignite his BarBQue pit when not testing nozzles.... or maybe used in combination and the time to cook is computed with regards to the spray pattern of the nozzle in the tester at the time....

Good luck with the business! Way to go. When I get organized enough to check the injectors on Hilda and learn enough from the mercedesshop mavens, I might be sending mine over. Set up looks good. Why do you think the glycerine gauge wasn't right?

Liked your site and the fact you're involved with biodiesel.

Are you TomJ on biodiesel.infopop as well?

__________________
Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell. -- Edward Abbey

1984 300SD: Hilda the veggie vundercar

"ignite his BarBQue pit"

Greg....Good idea, sort of a duel purpose contraption that might be also used in the construction of a "watermelon launcher" (same idea as a potato gun, but BIG) Actually I was wondering about the horizontalness of the injector too. I was told by the guy I borrowed one from to hold a piece of cardboard (not your hand or your cat) under the nozzle to check the pattern of the spray, spoz you could do that with the injector horizontal but it might be kinda messy. As to the shims, All the injectors I replaced the nozzles on or cleaned up tested close to the same.This leads me to believe that the "pop test" is a check and if I ran across one that didnt pass at least I would know it was bad and replace it. It would be interesting to know the scoop on the shims, I assume a shim would increase the tension on the spring which would increase the pop off pressure.

__________________


1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 140K
1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild
1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K
1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor
2014 Kubota L3800 tractor
1964 VW bug

"Lifes too short to drive a boring car"

OK, OK you wise guys

The "curly-cue" is just the way the injector line was when I scavenged it from a spare IP I have. It's not a California thing.

I only put it on the patio for lighting when taking the picture. I'm quite capable of major explosions in the barbeque with just simple propane and a balky igniter. Just ask our neighbors!

As to horizontal. I have to pump mine really carefully and slowly towards opening pressure to read the pop pressure accurately, and the horizontal position lets me see the spray easily, so I just left it that way. I have actually set up a paper pistol target on a little cardboard stand to record the spray pattern in "oil".

I've got shims from the dealer, but they are expensive for just a hardened washer and I was looking for a new source (cheaper...Scottish ancestry). I'd like to have a bunch, since I end up adjusting the thicker ones to get other sizes with a belt sander and a home made jig.

__________________
The Golden Rule

1984 300SD (bought new, sold it in 1988, bought it back 13 yrs. later)

Well, I was just trying to put all the clues together in a logical manner.... and it was too early to wake the neighbors with my diesel tractor.... particularly on a Sunday morning...
I know that our Ace Hardware has grade 8 washers.. but don't know which sizes... do you know what thicknesses and hole and diameter are needed for this deal ?
I guess you could aim it at your chest and you wouldn't even have to look carefully to tell when it let go.... LOL

I'll answer all the questions above that I can in this post.

First, the horizontal mount is the way the stock injector nozzle testers work, that tube is the one supplied from the factory with the nozzle tester, they're made to be tested horizontal, not sure why, but the two factory authorized Bosch service centers here in the state have this same tester, with the same horizontal mount. This is a used one I purchased that was Bosch certified (whatever that means) tester that had the gauge broken by a flying part in a shop, so they bought a new identical tester and sold me this one.

As far as the spray being "vertical" or "horizontal", it's insignificant as the ~2,000 PSI pop pressure would spray the same pattern to about 2 feet away regardless of orientation (it could be upside down and the pattern would be the same in the distance concerned (about 4" from the nozzle, as would be seen in a chamber.)

As far as the shims, yes, they increase or decrease the "pop" pressure, but a few k's is a LOT of difference.

I bought injector nozzle shims from Rusty, but they weren't cheap. Most of what I have are from injectors I bought from junkyards and scavenged from parts. Using washers could work, but most are .019-.027 in thickness, WAY too much to shim a stock nozzle washer and too thin for an independant shim (I know, I've experimented with this for a while.)

What I'd like to find is some .005-.010" shim washers (like bearing spacers) that are .450 OD with an ID range of .125-.200.

Getting +/-2bar is pretty tough with just the stock washers as they are 1.6-1.9 and switching and swapping till I make that tolerance is taking me FOREVER! It would be SO much faster with thinner shims that I could just calculate the PSI/.001" and add or subtract that to get the precise thickness.

Here's what the shims look like (BTW, the ID of the stock shims has been all kinds of #'s, even in the same set of rebuilts, they are a wide range.)

Attached Thumbnails

 

__________________
1984 300D Turbo - 4-speed manual conversion, mid-level resto

1983 300D - parts car

1979 300TD Auto - Parts car.

1985 300D Auto - Wrecked/Parts.


=========================

"If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there". Lewis Carrol

" the horizontal mount is the way the stock injector nozzle testers work."
LOL.... I am sure that Stevo's and my mental image came from the picture in the MB Factory shop manual...
But the other item which brought it to mind was jbaj007's comment about the smell of diesel in the garage... my first thought was that maybe if the nozzle was directed down into a catch container it would be easier to control the fluid being used...and thus the smell.... also in the shop manual is a sentence saying that a " special fluid" is used in the MB testor.. I don't know what that means..... or why it is specified... maybe due to what kind of seals are used in the tester not being compatible with diesel fuel (?)....
I am not sure what the difference between shims are washers are.... but my Ace has some tiny thin washers in copper for sure... I bought some the other day.... I will measure them....I did not check for small washers in steel because these were for an electrical project....
I really did not mean for yall to take my mentioning of the orientation of the nozzles so seriously... I just had the Flame thrower thought once I saw Jbaj007's Patio picture.... LOL

Attached Thumbnails

 

With MB being so safety oriented, maybe the special fluid is non-flammable.

__________________
Rick Miley
2014 Tesla Model S
2018 Tesla Model 3
2017 Nissan LEAF
Former MB: 99 E300, 86 190E 2.3, 87 300E, 80 240D, 82 204D Euro
Chain Elongation References

Yes, well, that makes perfect sense to me, not sure why these are NOT mounted vertically. The pipe is a rigid machined steel assy MADE to be horizontal, so there is no "bending" it down to accomodate a vertical? Really makes little sense from an engineering standpoint, maybe its that way so you can see the spray better? No idea.


Yes, even Bosch specifies a calibration fluid, "Viscor 1487", that their "authorized" service centers have to use in the tester, I think it's more to prevent a flammable vaporized liquid hazard than for anything specific about the tester. I use that for the diesel injectors, and then have to drain everything and re-fill with biodiesel or SVO for those injectors, but I'll probably just stick with the Viscor once I get the calibration for the WVO/SVO/BD injectors down to a science.

The copper will probably compress over time against the steel injector body and the spring (remember, it compression cycles a gazzillion times a mile), so the washers they use are mildly hardened. I know someone makes steel bearing shims that are .005 on up, just need to go through my books and find who it was, probably WM Berg?

Hey, I've always been sensitive to people questioning my orientation ;-)

Seriously, I had questions about that too, but it is obviously made to be that way, and even the new ones (made by Zexel and "most" others) are still made with the horizontal pipe setup?

__________________
1984 300D Turbo - 4-speed manual conversion, mid-level resto

1983 300D - parts car

1979 300TD Auto - Parts car.

1985 300D Auto - Wrecked/Parts.


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"If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there". Lewis Carrol

Ok guys lets educate the uneducated, thats me

First.
So I understand why TomJ has built his injector tester. It's a buisness. But why would an individual build a tester especially since you guys seem to indicate a difficulty in getting the required shimms. Now this is a question from someone who spent $550 for a coil spring compressor, I do love having my own tools!!

Second.
As TomJ's site points out, he calibrates the injectors to +/- 2bar or 4 bar for the cheaper model. What tolerance am I getting in the injectors I buy from Fastlane? Are they new or rebuilt?

C.
A tolerance of +/- 2 or 4 bar. why is this necessary? Or are we measuring with a micrometer, marking with a grease pencil and hacking off with an axe!! Is it necessary. Each cylinder does not have those tolerances in compression, air flow etc. So why purchase a balanced set?

Another.
The question that TomJ may not want to hear. Why spend $290 for a set of 5 injectors for my 300TD when they are $234.00 at Fastlane and $198.75 at another unnamed site. Or why spend $340 for the Premium Gold Injector. I know the answer will be a quality issue. But what quality am I buying vs. the bosch injectors that last 100,000 miles or so.

Curious minds want to know!!

Dave

__________________
1970 220D, owned 1980-1990
1980 240D, owned 1990-1992
1982 300TD, owned 1992-1993
1986 300SDL, owned 1993-2004
1999 E300, owned 1999-2003
1982 300TD, 213,880mi, owned since Nov 18, 1991- Aug 4, 2010 SOLD
1988 560SL, 100,000mi, owned since 1995
1965 Mustang Fastback Mileage Unknown(My sons)
1983 240D, 176,000mi (My daughers) owned since 2004
2007 Honda Accord EX-L I4 auto, the new daily driver
1985 300D 264,000mi Son's new daily driver.(sold)
2008 Hyundai Tiberon. Daughters new car

Actually, it's not a "real" business, just a way to pay for the tester and a reason to have it.

ANY that you will buy rebuilt from the parts vendors are NOT balanced and are around the +/- 5bar (that's ~+/- 72PSI) that MB specs. Yes, they work, and you can get lucky and get a "closely" matched set. They are ALL rebuilt (not new), but they are Bosch factory rebuilt injectors with new nozzles and really are as good as new.

Like most of us have done, you'll probably have to try a set of properly balanced injectors before you can understand the difference, but the smooth idle and even power accross all cylinders is a start. Yes, cyls will vary, but putting an unknown into the equation can set up an off-balance injector (on one end of an already wide tolerance) with a cylinder on another end of a tolerance. I'll try to come up with another way to put it, but to tell the truth, a lot of people have pretty good luck with the stock +/-5 bar injectors, probably because the ones they replace are so grossely off after 200k miles!

Doh...!!! Did you HAVE to ask that!!!!

Honestly, I don't really care whether I sell these or not, I already have enough people who have committed to buying them to pay for the tester, but I'll try to answer, even though you'll be better off getting this answer from an "independant" party.

Yes, they are $46 each from Fastlane. That is a rebuilt injector with a new nozzle and just as good as new adjusted to +/- 5bar. THEN you'll take the set to a Bosch shop or other injector service center and pay $35-75 ea to have them adjusted to +/- 3bar and balanced as a set (that is a tol of +/- 3 bar between ALL of a set, not just +/- 3bar from another fairly wide tolerance - big difference.) The shops here used to charge $50/ea injector to rebuild/balance a set, now they're $75/ea (that's $375/set to rebuild and balance your injectors.) Mine are $340/set for the whiz-bang ones, balanced to +/- 2bar between them, and $290/set for the +/- 4bar balanced set.

The reason mine are a "little" more than what you'd buy from Fastlane and the likes is that mine are stripped, ultrasonically cleaned (every part), bodies are then beadblasted, degreased in a heated bath, then electroplated with a copy-cad zinc plate. The gold ones then have the tops chromated gold and the lower halves are black zinc'd. Then they are assy'd with a stock washer, tested, dis-assy'd and get the "musical-shim" TX until they pop at 134-136 bar (138 bar for the WVO/SVO). They are then torqued, cleaned again, bathed in a preservative oil and packaged.

I could lose the plating, but I really like how they look and wanted to make the bodies corrosion resistant and "nice" looking. They still take the time of balancing that is not done to this tolerance by anyone that I know of.

Shops need to make a profit and spending 4 hours on one set of injectors is NOT the way to do that, I on the other hand, lost my ebay selling ability thanks to a worthless, lying thief (see the "Bigbabbo" threads) so have a LOT of time to spend on this kind of thing as there is nothing else right now bringing me income. I may make a few $'s doing this and that's enough, very little overhead and a lot of time on my hands is the only way I can.

Anyway, all valid questions, hope someone else can give more understanding to the matter.

__________________
1984 300D Turbo - 4-speed manual conversion, mid-level resto

1983 300D - parts car

1979 300TD Auto - Parts car.

1985 300D Auto - Wrecked/Parts.


=========================

"If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there". Lewis Carrol

But why would an individual build a tester especially since you guys seem to indicate a difficulty in getting the required shimms. Now this is a question from someone who spent $550 for a coil spring compressor, I do love having my own tools!!

First, my left coast orientation is brought into question, and now someone has the audacity to question a man's God given right to escape from his family, and retreat to the garage to "putter" and collect seldom used tools. What's next?..a book review of the Bible?...a critique of Mom and apple pie? The horror of it all!!

The real answer is: it cost me ~ $25 and it gives me injectors that allow for such a smooth idle that I can set my glass of Chardonay (Californian, of course) on the valve cover with the engine running while doing important car maintainance/adjustments/fiddling things.

P.S. All of us are coming over to your house to borrow your coil spring compressor.

__________________
The Golden Rule

1984 300SD (bought new, sold it in 1988, bought it back 13 yrs. later)