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PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/)
-   Diesel Discussion (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/)
-   -   Auto -> Manual Transmission Conversion Has Begun. (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/88699-auto-manual-transmission-conversion-has-begun.html)

boneheaddoctor 01-16-2005 02:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomJ
The point is, balanced to what? If you don't have the rotating/reciprocating assy out of the engine (crank, rods, pistons, flywheel, harm balancer, etc.) then you can't just take a flywheel to a balance shop and say "balance it". They need something to balance it TO. If we were dealing with an internally balanced engine, then yes, they could just zero balance it (no offweight balance), but these are externally balanced so they need to know how much counterweight to add to make up for the same amount of "off-balance" that the original flexplate has. That's why the caveat to mark the crank and flexplate BEFORE they are separated, so you can have a shop induce the same "off-balance" at the same place relative to the crank and install the same way.

And I sould add that both engines should be at common position when they are marked to be of any use....such as both motors to TDC on #1 compression stroke and mark booth at the same spot on the crank. Otherwise you are comparing apples to oranges.

wolf_walker 01-16-2005 02:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomJ
The point is, balanced to what? If you don't have the rotating/reciprocating assy out of the engine (crank, rods, pistons, flywheel, harm balancer, etc.) then you can't just take a flywheel to a balance shop and say "balance it". They need something to balance it TO. If we were dealing with an internally balanced engine, then yes, they could just zero balance it (no offweight balance), but these are externally balanced so they need to know how much counterweight to add to make up for the same amount of "off-balance" that the original flexplate has. That's why the caveat to mark the crank and flexplate BEFORE they are separated, so you can have a shop induce the same "off-balance" at the same place relative to the crank and install the same way.
I promise I'm not trying to be a smart-xxx here, but this is pretty much SOP.
Unless your going to pull the recip assembly down and have it all done, all you can do is try and match what was on the motor. Do MB converters have balance weights on them?

TomJ 01-16-2005 06:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf_walker
I promise I'm not trying to be a smart-xxx here, but this is pretty much SOP.
Unless your going to pull the recip assembly down and have it all done, all you can do is try and match what was on the motor. Do MB converters have balance weights on them?
Exactly. The thing is, most of us haven't been marking or having the 240D flywheels balanced to the same as the flexplate that we removed. Most just install the 240 flywheel matching the marks from the donor engine.

Also, on some engines, there is no index mark to begin with, that's why I say make sure it's indexed before you take the flexplate off.

wolf_walker 01-16-2005 07:11 PM
Ok, gotcha..

You guys are going to be able to write a book on this stuff soon.. :)

R Leo 01-16-2005 07:57 PM
I'm not going to worry with balancing it on my car. I can rev the engine to 3500-4000 sitting still in the driveway and there's no more vibration than there is on my box-stock 300D. If it was 23 gm OOB, that damned thing would shake like a three-legged washing machine in spin cycle.

TomJ 01-17-2005 12:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Leo
I'm not going to worry with balancing it on my car. I can rev the engine to 3500-4000 sitting still in the driveway and there's no more vibration than there is on my box-stock 300D. If it was 23 gm OOB, that damned thing would shake like a three-legged washing machine in spin cycle.
I'm probably not going to deal with mine either, until I have a garage and play time, so probably never. Mine doesn't vibrate much either, but these engines are SO stout on the bottom end, even out of balance, they'll probably go many K miles without issue and probably not vibrate much either.

R Leo 01-17-2005 08:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomJ
I'm probably not going to deal with mine either, until I have a garage and play time, so probably never. Mine doesn't vibrate much either, but these engines are SO stout on the bottom end, even out of balance, they'll probably go many K miles without issue and probably not vibrate much either.
FWIW, 20gm is about the weight of a travel-size tube of toothpaste.

TomJ 01-17-2005 10:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Leo
FWIW, 20gm is about the weight of a travel-size tube of toothpaste.
No wonder I smell "mint" everytime I handle that flexplate!

fisch 04-15-2005 09:48 PM
230G 4spd manual
 
great work on this thread, VERY informative.

everything here seems to be diesel to diesel... so here goes a stupid question

i have an OM617 (currenlty with an automatic) that i would like to swap into a euro 1980 230 (M115.973) with a 4 speed manual (711 maybe?) the tranny has a cast iron case (SAE80 stamped on the side).

it looks like the OM617 will bolt up to the 4 speed manual, but i'm wondering if the flywheel from the M115 would need to be replaced with a flywheel from a diesel engine?

are there differences in the diesel and gas engine flywheels?

i'm going to guess that i will need a new flywheel (based on info from this thread) - but hey, you never know...

TIA,

-mike

TomJ 04-15-2005 11:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisch
great work on this thread, VERY informative.

everything here seems to be diesel to diesel... so here goes a stupid question

i have an OM617 (currenlty with an automatic) that i would like to swap into a euro 1980 230 (M115.973) with a 4 speed manual (711 maybe?) the tranny has a cast iron case (SAE80 stamped on the side).

it looks like the OM617 will bolt up to the 4 speed manual, but i'm wondering if the flywheel from the M115 would need to be replaced with a flywheel from a diesel engine?

are there differences in the diesel and gas engine flywheels?

i'm going to guess that i will need a new flywheel (based on info from this thread) - but hey, you never know...

TIA,

-mike

Yes, different flywheel. You'll need to mark your 617's flexplate before removal and have a 240D flywheel re-balanced to the same "off-balance". Take both to an engine balancer, they'll know what to do. Just make sure they know where the mark is on the flexplate and to add the proper off-balance to match that mark (they'll mark the re-balanced flywheel the same.)

sleeeper 04-16-2005 01:32 AM
i have an OM617 (currenlty with an automatic) that i would like to swap into a euro 1980 230 (M115.973) with a 4 speed manual (711 maybe?) the tranny has a cast iron case (SAE80 stamped on the side).

So will the bellhousing from the gassers in fact bolt to the block of the diesels? I seem to remember them looking different?

fisch 04-16-2005 06:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomJ
Yes, different flywheel. You'll need to mark your 617's flexplate before removal and have a 240D flywheel re-balanced to the same "off-balance". Take both to an engine balancer, they'll know what to do. Just make sure they know where the mark is on the flexplate and to add the proper off-balance to match that mark (they'll mark the re-balanced flywheel the same.)
outstanding, and thank you very much tom. i've located a 240D flywheel for ~$100. (in utah)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sleeper
So will the bellhousing from the gassers in fact bolt to the block of the diesels? I seem to remember them looking different?
on the 230G (M115.973) the starter is on the same side as the om617, and the bolt pattern looks the same...

i'll know more on wednesday when i can do some measurements. i may be shopping for a bellhousing soon...

mebee i can trade the auto tranny for a bellhousing as i've no need for the auto in a GWagen

TomJ 04-17-2005 01:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisch
outstanding, and thank you very much tom. i've located a 240D flywheel for ~$100. (in utah)



on the 230G (M115.973) the starter is on the same side as the om617, and the bolt pattern looks the same...

i'll know more on wednesday when i can do some measurements. i may be shopping for a bellhousing soon...

mebee i can trade the auto tranny for a bellhousing as i've no need for the auto in a GWagen

$100 for a Flywheel!???!!! Yikes!!! That's WAY too much (especially considering I've paid $200 for a whole parts car WITH the flywheel, tranny, engine, etc.)

Most trannies come with the bellhousing? Why are you looking for one separately?

Jimmy Joe 04-17-2005 02:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomJ
$100 for a Flywheel!???!!! Yikes!!! That's WAY too much
I dropped $125 just for a window mechanism. I wish I could find a place to store a parts car (or 3 :D ) but sometimes ya just gotta shell out.
If the conditions were such that it would be eaiser to get a flywheel handed to you, already pulled, is that really so much? That is a lot of labor to jank, and a big mess too, no?

Mbenzo300td 04-17-2005 05:14 AM
Just a couple questions. I was wonderin how much your new manual tranny cost you. And i was also wonderin if you think it would be possible to put a five speed manual into a 1987 300 td.


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