Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help




Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #76  
Old 06-07-2005, 10:07 PM
Hatterasguy's Avatar
Zero
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Milford, CT
Posts: 19,295
Playing devils advicate here: Well it is almost a 10 year old car 50% is pretty good. Work them more though maybe you can get more out of them.
__________________
2017 Chevy Silverado 1500 LTZ
Mercedes??

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
-Thomas Jefferson
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 06-07-2005, 10:20 PM
t walgamuth's Avatar
dieselarchitect
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lafayette Indiana
Posts: 32,701
liability

a spring perch is not a wear item. it should never break. it should be the last thing that rusts away. it is a manufacturer's flaw, an engineering flaw or a flaw in construction. in any case the liability and responsibility is all mb's. no matter what the age. well may be if it was 20 years old instead of 10.
__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual. It still needs upholstery redone...I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 06-09-2005, 08:52 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Reno/Sparks, NV
Posts: 3,063
I had the estimate done today and it's about $4000 parts & labor to repair both sides. The parts are very expensive and they make up half of the cost. After that I left a message for the service manager at the dealer and I told him that I still want MB to pay for all of this, as it's a manufacturing defect and this kind of failure is not something anyone would expect on a 9 year old Mercedes. Besides I've counted at least 3 people on this board who've had this problem fixed for free so I don't know why I'm not being fully covered (I said this to the advisor too).
__________________
2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 06-09-2005, 08:59 PM
Carleton Hughes's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,611
This all has got me shaking in my boots.

Just bought a '98 210 diesel,did a visual inspection by chipping away the rubbery protective coating and looking for rust underneath,have seen none so far.

I wonder since this seems to be a known defect if they {MBUSA} could be coerced into providing an upgrade or preventative repair, anyone out there tried this?????
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 06-09-2005, 10:12 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 3,956
Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselAddict
I had the estimate done today and it's about $4000 parts & labor to repair both sides. The parts are very expensive and they make up half of the cost. After that I left a message for the service manager at the dealer and I told him that I still want MB to pay for all of this, as it's a manufacturing defect and this kind of failure is not something anyone would expect on a 9 year old Mercedes. Besides I've counted at least 3 people on this board who've had this problem fixed for free so I don't know why I'm not being fully covered (I said this to the advisor too).
$4000 is by far the most I have heard spent to correct this and should be paid for by MB but this certainly explains why they don't want to accept it. Keep climbing the customer service ladder until you reach the top. At some point there will be someone capable of committing to paying for all of it.

May dealer has told me that MB will pay for these on a case by case basis for and I heard originally that they were only paying when the car was owned by its original buyer, but I think now they have abandoned that policy as it makes no sense to distiguish between someone who was an original buyer or someone who bought the car second hand when it comes to their safety.

Good luck
__________________
Marty D.

2013 C300 4Matic
1984 BMW 733i
2013 Lincoln MKz
Reply With Quote
  #81  
Old 06-10-2005, 02:48 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Reno/Sparks, NV
Posts: 3,063
I find climbing the customer ladder to be quite difficult. After I told the customer people at MBUSA that MB made that 50% offer to me through the local dealer and that I wanted speak to their supervisor about it they told me that from now on all communications have to go through the dealer since MB already made an offer through them. Unfortunately the dealer is not very forthcoming about giving me any contact info to someone higher, but first I'll wait for a response from the service manager to my last message.

Carleton, make sure your insulation has total adhesion and no cracks or gaps, otherwise water will start accumulating behind it and start corrosion. I believe that's how this problem started. The problem is MB uses a soft adhesion compound that eventually shrinks and loses its adhesion. They should be using something thin but rock hard with excellent rust proofing instead of this crap.

I'm grateful to Slowmoe and others who have contributed to this thread and other similar ones as without this info most people including myself would never bother checking this problem area and something could have gone awfully wrong.
__________________
2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 06-10-2005, 07:38 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 3,956
Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselAddict
I find climbing the customer ladder to be quite difficult. After I told the customer people at MBUSA that MB made that 50% offer to me through the local dealer and that I wanted speak to their supervisor about it they told me that from now on all communications have to go through the dealer since MB already made an offer through them. Unfortunately the dealer is not very forthcoming about giving me any contact info to someone higher, but first I'll wait for a response from the service manager to my last message.

Carleton, make sure your insulation has total adhesion and no cracks or gaps, otherwise water will start accumulating behind it and start corrosion. I believe that's how this problem started. The problem is MB uses a soft adhesion compound that eventually shrinks and loses its adhesion. They should be using something thin but rock hard with excellent rust proofing instead of this crap.

I'm grateful to Slowmoe and others who have contributed to this thread and other similar ones as without this info most people including myself would never bother checking this problem area and something could have gone awfully wrong.
You could always have the car fixed and pay the 50% now and then sue MBUSA in small claims court for the balance of it if you could not get them to commit up-front to pay for it. I am sure they would land up settling the suit rather than bothering to show up in court to defend it. By offering to pay half they have all but admitted there is a defect and you can bring in NHTSA records to show a pattern of problems to prove you had reason to believe your safety was in jeopardy.
__________________
Marty D.

2013 C300 4Matic
1984 BMW 733i
2013 Lincoln MKz
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 06-10-2005, 07:43 AM
t walgamuth's Avatar
dieselarchitect
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lafayette Indiana
Posts: 32,701
small claims

might work but lawsuits are always a lot more trouble than they look like going in. in indiana small claims is limited to $3000. i would try like hell to get a settlement myself... while hinting at lawsuits to come if no action is forthcoming.
__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual. It still needs upholstery redone...I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 06-10-2005, 04:25 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 3,956
Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth
might work but lawsuits are always a lot more trouble than they look like going in. in indiana small claims is limited to $3000. i would try like hell to get a settlement myself... while hinting at lawsuits to come if no action is forthcoming.
That's why I said let them pay their half now and sue them for the remaining $2,000. Almost every small claims court will allow at least that much (mine is $5,000). I have sued twice is SCC, once I went through with it and won and one time I settled with the defendant for 100% of what I was seeking...both cases took very little time and effort and were well worth the trouble. Don't be afraid to use small claims court. You can sue a big company like MBUSA in your own municipal court and they HAVE TO RESPOND or you will win by default and get an enforceable judgement against them.

Chances are their lawyers will cost them lots more than $2,000 to defend it so I think they will simply settle any case against them for these repairs rather than defend them and risk losing anyway.
__________________
Marty D.

2013 C300 4Matic
1984 BMW 733i
2013 Lincoln MKz
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 06-14-2005, 01:19 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Reno/Sparks, NV
Posts: 3,063
Yesterday I finally got a call back from the service manager and was told that 50% is all I'll be getting and MB is doing me a favor since I'm not the original owner and the car is out of warranty. So at this time I have no choice but to accept the offer, and suing for the rest is an option, but another option is to wait a while and see if there's going to be a recall and then I could get reimbursed for my expenses. Last night I submitted a complaint to the NHTSA and this morning I did some more searching on that site and I was almost shocked to see so many complaints regarding the same issue, particularly for the 1997 model year. You'd think with so many complaints there'd be an investigation already. The 96 model year doesn't have as many complaints, probably because there are fewer of these cars, and I didn't do a seach for 98 and 99 but I'm sure there are at least some complaints. One thing I dislike about the NHTSA website is the overlapping vehicle model categories, such as E-class, E320, 320, 300, 320 E and so forth, which make the searching more difficult.
__________________
2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 06-14-2005, 02:20 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 3,956
Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselAddict
Yesterday I finally got a call back from the service manager and was told that 50% is all I'll be getting and MB is doing me a favor since I'm not the original owner and the car is out of warranty. So at this time I have no choice but to accept the offer, and suing for the rest is an option, but another option is to wait a while and see if there's going to be a recall and then I could get reimbursed for my expenses. Last night I submitted a complaint to the NHTSA and this morning I did some more searching on that site and I was almost shocked to see so many complaints regarding the same issue, particularly for the 1997 model year. You'd think with so many complaints there'd be an investigation already. The 96 model year doesn't have as many complaints, probably because there are fewer of these cars, and I didn't do a seach for 98 and 99 but I'm sure there are at least some complaints. One thing I dislike about the NHTSA website is the overlapping vehicle model categories, such as E-class, E320, 320, 300, 320 E and so forth, which make the searching more difficult.
Not only are there different car model categories which overlap, there are different complaint categories - there's subcategories all the way down to springs, but you could have a complaint in any one of about 10 different categories between the car models and types of complaints all for the same model and issue.

Just the fact that one can find multiple complaints in each category tells me the problem is really widespread. Consider that probably 99% of people have never even heard of NHTSA so the vast majority would never file a complaint too.

I love their attitude that they are doing you a favor by paying half since you are not the original owner...as if only the original owner's life is worth them caring enough to pay to fix this safety defect. I think it is all just smoke as they probably would find some other excuse to deny responsibility if you were the original owner.

Personally, I would take the 50% from them now and sue them for the balance just to get satisfaction of knowing I tried.
__________________
Marty D.

2013 C300 4Matic
1984 BMW 733i
2013 Lincoln MKz
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 06-14-2005, 05:00 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Reno/Sparks, NV
Posts: 3,063
I got more bad news. The quote of $4000 from the bodyshop included superseded parts. The new parts are almost $2000 each, bringing the new total to over $6000. The bodyshop told me they verified the new part number and it is legitimate, however they can buy it only from MB. Do I smell a big fish here? I suspect MB beefed up the price so that in reality they actually pay nothing to me. I need to verify the real price of these parts. The parts are basically the spring cup plus the back wall that it's welded to. I think tomorrow I'll bring the car to another bodyshop and get another quote just for myself.
__________________
2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 06-14-2005, 05:01 PM
Rick Miley's Avatar
Spark Free
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Land O Lakes, FL
Posts: 3,086
Make them give you the part numbers first. Then call Fastlane and ask Phil for the prices.
__________________
Rick Miley
2014 Tesla Model S
2018 Tesla Model 3
2017 Nissan LEAF
Former MB: 99 E300, 86 190E 2.3, 87 300E, 80 240D, 82 204D Euro
Chain Elongation References
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 06-14-2005, 07:29 PM
gsxr's Avatar
Unbanned...?
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 7,977
Looks like the new part is the entire wheelhouse (metal inner fender)... 210-620-68-21 (right side), but I'm only seeing $1170 list for that ($940 wholesale). I agree, get the part numbers and make sure they're not tacking on huge markup...

__________________
Dave M.
Boise, ID

1997 E420 - 155kmi (Bugeyes)
1994 E420 - 145kmi (Blondie)
1993 500E - 193kmi (Lollipop)
1992 400E - 189kmi (Stinky Dirty)
Check out my website photos, documents, and movies!
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 06-14-2005, 08:56 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Reno/Sparks, NV
Posts: 3,063
I did call Phil and the MB markup is not very large, though it's still significant. According to the body shop the original part number was 210-620-2161. This number has been superseded by 210-620-6761 and Phil was quoting me $1740 for it. The dealer's price is about $2000. So now I know it's true that the price has indeed gone up and it's awfully expensive. The problem is this part supposedly includes the frame rail which I probably don't need and it's not possible to purchase just the spring perch with the apron, though the spring perch itself can be purchased separately for only a few hundred, but in my case the apron is rusted too and I need a new one on both sides. Another solution would be to purchase the spring perch by itself and have another body shop fabricate a piece of metal to replace the apron, but MB would not participate in that and I don't know how reliable of a repair that would be.

Gsxr, you seem to have yet another part number and I'm not sure what the difference is. How did you get this number? Here's a parts schematic that Phil sent me. The spring perch is #71 and #74 looks like the apron/perch assembly but according to the dealer it is for 4Matics only and not applicable in my case.
Attached Thumbnails
W210 Diesel owners: Spring Perch Failure - Please read-snap.gif  
__________________
2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page