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  #16  
Old 10-20-2004, 10:36 AM
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Location: Motor City, MI
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Relax - Have a cigarette!

The world won't end if you use the green stuff. It's been used for decades and people have grown accustomed to it. But the trend for most companies has been to start using the better and improved formulations now on the market. What you're experiencing is an industry overhaul of antifreeze formulations. There's a lot of them out there, and they're more expensive than the green stuff. I'm personally confused myself. But the consensus seems to be that Zerex G-05 (nearly identical to the MB antifreeze) is approved for use in MB cooling systems, and both Zerex G 05 and MB antifreeze is supposed to be better than the green stuff for a variety of reasons. One of them is the low silicate concentration and improved additive formulation.

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  #17  
Old 10-20-2004, 11:08 AM
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Kestas--I've discovered the same thing from doing searches here-the zerex seems to be the one evrybody agrees to use.

Now tell me something--how'd you know I'm a smoker? All type "a"'s are not smokers. And I'm a type a all the way!! Worry about schtuff before it ever happens.

Cheers,

Bill
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  #18  
Old 10-20-2004, 05:32 PM
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Another thing not to worry about....If you are running plain water as part of your flush routine you don't need to worry about the temp hitting 100 degrees C. The cooling system is under pressure which takes the actual boiling point up at least 10 degrees or so. The coolant solution you add after the flush takes it up even higher. HOWEVER, plain water will still freeze at 0 degrees C so if you leave it in for a few weeks don't do it in freezing weather!
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  #19  
Old 10-20-2004, 06:16 PM
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Two questions

What do you guys do with the coolant you are removing and all of the flush mixes? Or do I want to know?

And has anybody over see this stuff? www.marsolve.com. It is made for the raw water systems of boats to clean deposits, especially on heat exchangers. I used it about 4 years ago and plan to do so again this spring. Last time it was amazing. The innards of the cooling system looked like brand new. Too bad you could not use this for the cooling system flush.
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  #20  
Old 10-20-2004, 06:50 PM
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[QUOTE=Alan Hamm]What do you guys do with the coolant you are removing and all of the flush mixes? Or do I want to know?

I use it to water the neighborhood cats that get in my car if I leave the windows down.


I'm just kiddin' cat lovers...but I don't like the darn things.

I've got an old farm tractor that needs a little coolant every now and then. I strain the old coolant and top her off.

Cheers,

Bill
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  #21  
Old 10-21-2004, 08:47 AM
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Well, the responsible thing is to take the old coolant to your municipal disposal site. I simply flush it down the toilet that is hooked up to our city's sewer system. I don't fuss with the residue from flushing with the garden hose.... I leave that on the ground.

What you DON'T want to do is flush it down to a septic tank system, a city's storm sewer (as opposed to sanitary sewer), or dump it wholesale on the ground. I'd also advise not flushing it down to the city's sewer system shortly before, during, or after a heavy rain. Some systems, like Detroit, can't handle the excess and simply discharge it untreated into the waterways.

You'll also want to be very careful about leaving coolant around where animals can lick it. They die a horrible death from poisoning. Make sure to keep your pets indoors until you finish your job, secure the old fluid, and wash away any spills.

I looked at the marsolve web site. The MSDS sheet lists the formulation as proprietary with 5% hydrochloric acid. I have a suspicion the remainder of the active ingredient is citric acid. I use both HCl and citric acid to clean metals. I personally believe HCl is too strong to use for cleaning an automotive cooling system. It can perforate healthy metal, and the residue - if not properly neutralized - can be a problem in the cooling system. In other words it may do more harm than good.

BTW, I believe cats were put on this Earth for our amusement so we can tease the heck out of them!
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Last edited by Kestas; 10-21-2004 at 08:54 AM.
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  #22  
Old 10-21-2004, 09:20 AM
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I was under the belief that Marsolve also contained heavy amounts of salt. Perhaps I am wrong, I did not study the MSDS closely. I do know it works on the raw water side of a boat cooling system.
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  #23  
Old 10-21-2004, 10:49 AM
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Now that I think about it, I can see why such an aggressive cleaning agent is provided for boaters. During operation the coolant is pumped continually fresh from the lake, whereas automotive cooling systems are closed systems. Any residue from the cleaning agent is continuously being diluted during boating.
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  #24  
Old 10-21-2004, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestas

BTW, I believe cats were put on this Earth for our amusement so we can tease the heck out of them!
There was a neighbors housecat here this a.m. You should have seen my big rooster go after him. A rooster will tear up a cat--if he can catch 'em....they went round and round with that bird right on the cats tail.

Cheers,

Bill
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  #25  
Old 10-21-2004, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestas
Now that I think about it, I can see why such an aggressive cleaning agent is provided for boaters. During operation the coolant is pumped continually fresh from the lake, whereas automotive cooling systems are closed systems. Any residue from the cleaning agent is continuously being diluted during boating.

Actually raw water cooling is just for people who are to cheap to spring for the freshwater cooling option. With freshwater cooling the raw water is run into a heat exchanger, the heat exchanger is just like a radiator. Most boats seem to use green coolant, although their are a few types of special coolant. CAT for example.
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  #26  
Old 10-21-2004, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatterasguy
Actually raw water cooling is just for people who are to cheap to spring for the freshwater cooling option. With freshwater cooling the raw water is run into a heat exchanger, the heat exchanger is just like a radiator. Most boats seem to use green coolant, although their are a few types of special coolant. CAT for example.
As I am quite sure you know, there are really two systems. I have a freshwater system (coolant) which is further cooled by a raw water heat exchanger. This Marsolve product is circulated thru the raw water portion of the system to remove calcium and scale.

I still consider the system as part raw water.
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  #27  
Old 10-21-2004, 12:26 PM
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Yeah they are two systems I was just lazy and was trying to type less. I'm not sure what Marsolve is but I run Salt Away or Salt Terminator through the raw water side at the end of every season to keep the salt buildup down. However the risers still seem to be heading south either way, oh well thats the next owners problem!
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  #28  
Old 01-29-2005, 05:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestas
Now that I think about it, I can see why such an aggressive cleaning agent is provided for boaters. During operation the coolant is pumped continually fresh from the lake, whereas automotive cooling systems are closed systems. Any residue from the cleaning agent is continuously being diluted during boating.
My boat has a closed cooling system, with a heat exchanger that uses the fresh (or salt) water to cool the engine coolant. Much better system for boats on salt water.
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  #29  
Old 01-29-2005, 05:14 AM
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[QUOTE=BoostnBenz] For me it turned out to be about a week's worth of driving, so I was just really careful keeping the temperature below 90*C. If I recall correctly I had a thermostat that was stuck open back then so it wasn't much of a problem. Cavitation is a long term problem caused by both the boiling and the difference in temperatures, so in the sense of different temperatures water would be better against it but for boiling it isn't. However if the temperature went a little over 100*C in the system hoses and other components will blow as the water will be boiling a little over.

QUOTE]

What most people forget is that our cooling systems are sealed and pressurized up to what, 12 psi? That pressure means that the boiling point is higher.

Cavitation is not just a function of temperature, but of pressure as well. I can show you cavitation (boiling) by adding a vacuum to room temperature water. All pumps have NPSH (Net Positive Suction Head), meaning they create low pressure on the suction side, and higher pressure on the discharge side.

At the plant I work at, I could show you cavitation where there are changes in flow, hence changes in pressure, such as downstream of a restrictive orafice, or after a pipe bend of small radius, etc.

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