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  #31  
Old 08-12-2006, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmari View Post
How did the c-111 II (D) make 190hp with a om617?
$$$$

Any other questions?
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  #32  
Old 08-13-2006, 01:19 AM
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granted! you need beaucoup buck to get 190 hp from a 617 but that technology should not be that expensive 30 years later.
I would add to the Intercooler, the variable vane turbo, and/or compressor, a beefy radiator with a no less beefy oil cooler.
Add to that tungsten or titanium alloy sleeves and corresponding pistons. That should allow to push EGT a little further without melting to many things.
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  #33  
Old 08-13-2006, 02:25 AM
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If you want real power, we learn alot from the GM 6.5L engines. 6.5TD Power Project

They are similar to our design (But not as strongly built). 18:1 compression pistons are what I'd like to make for a 617.
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  #34  
Old 08-13-2006, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeitgeist View Post
Unless I missed it and somebody already mentioned this; the limiting factor for either the OM617 ir OM60X engines is the 5.5mm plunger and barrel sets (elements) in the pumps, not the amount of air entering the engines (turbo). The stock turbo already produces an overabundance of air for the stock pump. You could theoretically alter the torque curve a bit lower by adding a variable vane turbo, in an effort to improve 0-60mph times, but your peak hp/torque figures aren't going to be altered by upgrading the turbo alone.

More fuel => More Powah

More fuel & More Air => Even More Powah
More air => more power 2.

read the blue text http://courses.washington.edu/me341/oct22v2.htm

Changing the turbo can get you an increase and its not just because of the increase in air. A more efficient compressor wheel and/or turbine will create less back pressure. Although a diesel is far less sensitive to back pressure than an Otto cycle engine, back pressure still robs some power from the engines output.
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  #35  
Old 08-13-2006, 10:14 PM
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lower compression

you mentioned 18:1 pistons.
what about having someone waterjet a thick head gasket?
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  #36  
Old 08-14-2006, 01:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnClark View Post
More air => more power 2.

read the blue text http://courses.washington.edu/me341/oct22v2.htm

Changing the turbo can get you an increase and its not just because of the increase in air. A more efficient compressor wheel and/or turbine will create less back pressure. Although a diesel is far less sensitive to back pressure than an Otto cycle engine, back pressure still robs some power from the engines output.
Maybe, but nobody with an MB indirect injected engine has yet been able to prove this to be the case, so I remain sufficiently skeptical. Again, I have no doubt that modern turbo innovations which increase boost pressures at an earlier rpm level should similarly lower the onset of the torque curve, but I've yet to see an overall bump in peak hp/torque. So in other words, show me. I believe the Finns have shown that the key to increased MB diesel performance lies first and foremost within the injection pump.
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  #37  
Old 08-14-2006, 01:30 PM
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Thanks for all the input guys. I've learned some things reading your posts. I wanted to ask you something else.

How much torque does the 617 Turbo gives? How can I increase the torque? I want to add the intercooler and tweak the turbo to get some more spice in my benz. Since diesels are torquers by nature, peak HP shouldn't be a target, torque should.

Thanks
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  #38  
Old 08-14-2006, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeitgeist
I believe the Finns have shown that the key to increased MB diesel performance lies first and foremost within the injection pump.
...and not just any pump can do it either. Mynä Diesel will only alter the type M pump for performance (for 100E/hole). Unfortunately, MBZ 617s brought to this side of the pond all had the Bosch type MWs.

Quote:
How much torque does the 617 Turbo gives?
Mine makes 125-127 ft/lbs of torque and 78-79 hp (per chassis dyno)
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Last edited by R Leo; 08-14-2006 at 01:44 PM.
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  #39  
Old 08-14-2006, 02:25 PM
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the 617.95x get stock 125hp 184 lbft.

There was at one point in time aftermarket turbos/IC kits created by a Swedish company to bump these figures to 140hp 205lbft. As you can see entire companies have dedicated research resourses to bump the figure by really marginal percentage.

They have since then discountinued their line. (they had a retrofit for 240D turbo!!!!)
see: http://www.sttemtec.com/
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  #40  
Old 08-14-2006, 02:49 PM
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Well, 205 lb/ft is a decent number if you have a manual tranny. I was going to install the 617 turbo to replace a 617 NA, but I would like something that gives me still a little bit more power. I can trade the two 617 engine I mentioned for another model of mercedes diesel engine at a local mercedes salvage a friend owns. Which would be a good engine swap that would give me some extra power beyond 140 HP? My benz is an euro w123 300D
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  #41  
Old 08-14-2006, 02:52 PM
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A Euro 300D is gold. Check what they sell for on eBay. Do you really want to lose all that equity?

Sixto
... stay tuned
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  #42  
Old 08-14-2006, 02:53 PM
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You need to consider your requirements in more depth. Do you want more off-the-line torque or more high-end torque? The mods you need will be different. In fact I suspect fitting a bigger turbo and intercooler will shift the torque curve up and to the right meaning you'll give up some off-the-line performance in exchange for passing power. I suppose VNT can help there within the limits of the IP.

As someone already said, you're $$ ahead to step up to the next level of MB performance -- 617 -> 603, 603 -> 606t. Heck, for what 560SELs and 400Es go for these days, you'll have lots of money left over for premium gasoline if you sell your Diesel.

Sixto
... stay tuned
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  #43  
Old 08-14-2006, 02:58 PM
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All you've said is true Sixto. Actually I've been flirting with a 1985 500SL which is in awesome shape, but the owner is asking a high price for it. Anyway, I love my diesel. I beleive mercedes diesels are the most reliable engines in the world.

How much power does a 3.0 L 603 gives? Would it fit under my hood? Any other mercedes diesel engine that might fit inside the hood of my benz?

Thanks
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  #44  
Old 08-14-2006, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rashakor View Post
the 617.95x get stock 125hp 184 lbft.
Maybe at the crank, on a good day, new, in 30°F air.

I know that mine is the real world, where-the-rubber-meets-the-road, number.
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  #45  
Old 08-14-2006, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Leo View Post
Maybe at the crank, on a good day, new, in 30°F air.
...........without a/c.........
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