What does Myna really do to a IP? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

CoyoteStarfish · #1 07-25-2008, 11:27 AM

Al l I can gather from obvious sources is that Myna changes out the pump elements, along with some fancy external adjustments.

No details, however, on how the element transplant is done.

I'm starting to wonder if a competent machinist couldn't bore out the pumps for larger elements and achieve similar results minus the external adjustments.

Even larger pump elements are not readily available (which I gather that they are not), it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to mill new elements.

A little trial & error and you have pumps close to that of the Finns at half the price or less?

Provided; I do not know exactly how these injection pumps work, so I might just be pissing in the wind with this post.

Monomer · #2 07-25-2008, 04:05 PM

I plan on experimenting with this.

th IP is a complicated little pump. I dont have a spare M/MW pump sitting around to play with yet.

I'm a tool and die maker, I'm sure I could whip something up.

LUVMBDiesels · #3 07-25-2008, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monomer

I plan on experimenting with this.

th IP is a complicated little pump. I dont have a spare M/MW pump sitting around to play with yet.

I'm a tool and die maker, I'm sure I could whip something up.

I have a pump frpm a 617.951. Do you want it?

CoyoteStarfish · #4 07-25-2008, 07:11 PM

How about the 603 pump as well?

tomnik · #5 07-26-2008, 12:59 AM

Hi,

60x engines have an IP Type M
61x use t have Type MW

The elements are completely different.
As far as I know Myna is doing M-pumps only. Those M-elements (7 mm) are available and it is a standard job for an injection shop to change elements and do adjustments of equal quantity and individual timing of the elements. Idle quantity should match stock and all other adjustment of the governor should be done at home depending on the setup of the engine (air supply).

For my SD I installed custom made MW elements (6 mm) and run them for about 2000 mi up to now in a stock engine.
For the MW-pump it is even easier (cheaper) to swap elements and do the necessary basic adjustments on the test bench.

In my opinion an adaptation to the individual engine set up (air supply) is necessary. Without increased air flow (turbo, IC, exhaust) the potential of larger elements can not be used. Further to this I recognised a different curve shape of fuel flow over rpm which has to be respected in comparison with the curve of air flow over rpm to avoid black smoke in the whole range of rpm.
I.e. with my 6 mm (HOLLY-) MW-elements I must live with dead bottom power (stock turbo not sufficient air at low rpm) to avoid black smoke.
This will definitely change when the VTN turbo, IC and exhaust mods are done.

Tom

Deni · #6 07-26-2008, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomnik

I.e. with my 6 mm (HOLLY-) MW-elements I must live with dead bottom power (stock turbo not sufficient air at low rpm) to avoid black smoke.
Tom

Can you limit off-boost smoke by tweaking the alda?

CoyoteStarfish · #7 07-26-2008, 09:14 AM

So if this is a "standard job" why are people paying Myna $2-3000 + sending it halfway across the world (from the US anyway)?

If someone in the US can perfect this process, or if they already have the ability and simply ADVERTISE it - it would be a good niche market, with plenty of willing customers.

Tymbrymi · #8 07-26-2008, 10:52 AM

Although I don't know if it has been confirmed or not... there is also talk that Myna changes the cam to a custom one they've designed.

6mm elements are available from Bosch and were used on the 98-99 E300D. All the other M pump elements available in the US are 5.5mm.

CoyoteStarfish · #9 07-26-2008, 12:04 PM

Only makes sense that if you raised the volume with a larger bore element that the pressure would drop unless you put a higher lift cam in.

You see? This is what I'm talking about. There is almost nothing known(published, written, explained) about the Myna pump. Not that I want to cheat the Finns out of $3k for the performance work they do. And believe me, their innovations are amazing. But that cost is ungodly high.

At most, I would only ever be able to justify spending a couple hundred on top of a total pump rebuild for 7MM elements.

bgkast · #10 07-26-2008, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomnik

For my SD I installed custom made MW elements (6 mm) and run them for about 2000 mi up to now in a stock engine.
For the MW-pump it is even easier (cheaper) to swap elements and do the necessary basic adjustments on the test bench.

In my opinion an adaptation to the individual engine set up (air supply) is necessary. Without increased air flow (turbo, IC, exhaust) the potential of larger elements can not be used. Further to this I recognised a different curve shape of fuel flow over rpm which has to be respected in comparison with the curve of air flow over rpm to avoid black smoke in the whole range of rpm.
I.e. with my 6 mm (HOLLY-) MW-elements I must live with dead bottom power (stock turbo not sufficient air at low rpm) to avoid black smoke.
This will definitely change when the VTN turbo, IC and exhaust mods are done.

Tom

Where did you have these elements made?

I have the other mods needed already, now I need more FUEL!

babymog · #11 07-26-2008, 11:22 PM

A larger element with the same stroke will be a larger volume. The pressure is determined by the nozzle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoyoteStarfish

Only makes sense that if you raised the volume with a larger bore element that the pressure would drop unless you put a higher lift cam in.

CoyoteStarfish · #12 07-27-2008, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by babymog

A larger element with the same stroke will be a larger volume. The pressure is determined by the nozzle.

I just wrapped my mind around it, the vertical travel is not affected so the delivery stroke is the same, but with a larger bore it delivers more fuel

My mind was in the wrong ballpark as fluids are non-compressible!!

tomnik · #13 07-27-2008, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tymbrymi

Although I don't know if it has been confirmed or not... there is also talk that Myna changes the cam to a custom one they've designed.

6mm elements are available from Bosch and were used on the 98-99 E300D. All the other M pump elements available in the US are 5.5mm.

Impossible that the cam is different! The elements are interchangeable, so stroke must be the same.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deni

Can you limit off-boost smoke by tweaking the alda?

Yes, but this increases the turbo lag and indicates that there is sleeping power unused.

Quote:

Originally Posted by babymog

A larger element with the same stroke will be a larger volume. The pressure is determined by the nozzle.

The larger volume exits in the same period of time. Peak pressure rises, better for atomisation and still far away from upper pressure limit of the pump.

The HOLLY-elements are "hand made" by a couple of smaller companies, due to the number of pieces. Important is the material, the mill job, heat treatment and final individual lapping. And of course the pre calculation for the design

Tom

bgkast · #14 07-27-2008, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomnik

The HOLLY-elements are "hand made" by a couple of smaller companies, due to the number of pieces. Important is the material, the mill job, heat treatment and final individual lapping. And of course the pre calculation for the design

Tom

Can you give any more info? Names? Phone numbers? Price? You're killing me.

tomnik · #15 07-27-2008, 04:33 PM

the only info that makes sense for you is price.
These elements are manufactured by very small local shops (and friends), none of them wants and needs to know what the final pieces is used for.
It took me nearly one year to build this network of specialists.
The first set is running in my SD for about 2000 mi now and I expect 2 further sets mid of August to be ready. The 2 new sets will give me the cost. The first set can be compared to real gold (in terms of cost).

Tom